New mouthpiece

[deleted_user_687c31b]

[HERMOKIWI]

I think a lot of this conflict depends on how you regard the knowledge of a teacher. There are things about the trumpet that have taken me decades to figure out, at least in terms of how those things affect me. So, I wouldn't have much confidence that a random teacher would have the necessary experience to resolve those issues in a student, especially a specific student with unique characteristics.

The typical teacher is not an expert in mouthpiece design and can only guess at how a particular mouthpiece will suit a particular student. So, although I think an experienced and qualified teacher (a standard that should not be assumed) can give a student general advice about mouthpieces I would not regard specific recommendations as spot on correct but, instead, I would regard such recommendations as directional in nature.

For the novice/developing student (the 8 year old in the examples cited) I would cut the teacher a lot more slack because at that age/level of development the nature of things is to evolve significantly over a period of time, so the recommendations are more to move the student into ranges of mouthpiece designs rather than into long term specific and exacting designs.

For example, back in the day the student would typically start out on a Bach 7C and would eventually change to a Bach 3C. Not that either mouthpiece was perfect. It was just a standard progression but, still, it might not be right for some students. The only way a teacher would know is to evaluate results. However, we know that results depend largely on the commitment of the student to practice and develop. So, if things are not working out is it really the fault of the mouthpiece (or horn)? Usually not. In fact, the student can probably perform satisfactorily on a range of mouthpieces IF the student has developed.

In my own case I moved away from a Bach 7C almost 60 years ago, but could I play OK on a Bach 7C today? Sure I could, especially if that's all I played. I wouldn't get the results I get on my Reeves 43D but I'd still get good results because now I know how to play in a manner that gets good results on any mouthpiece that at least fits me to some reasonable degree. Plus, there is a learning curve. If I could play only a Bach 7C for the rest of my career I have no doubt I could make that work and that eventually it would seem like an OK choice for me.

Players need to stop stressing out over mouthpieces. No mouthpiece can make up for deficient technique. If the mouthpiece fits reasonably well you can eventually get results consistent with your real ability.
_________________
HERMOKIWI

[delano]

Sorry that I was a little irritated about the teacher- and the Bach thing.

I think I agree with Hermokiwi here above in great lines. For young kids the teacher has to decide I think, for more advanced players I see the teacher in a protective role, like: don't go for the big boy mouthpieces, for the mature trumpet student probably only an advisory role especially in certain aspects of playing. But maybe I'm too optimistic about the teacher skills, I hope not.

For the AR Resonance choice of Hibidogrulez: your list of chosen mouthpieces shows signs of serious unbalance. Maybe you have some specific issue with mouthpieces that I don't really understand. There are some very big ones, some quite small ones and some middle of the road sizes on that list. My first thought is that you are trying to solve a playing problem with a hardware solution but I give my opinion for a better one.

Mouthpiece choice advice goes often in clichés:
Play what works,
The shoe size doctrine
Go to a shop and try as many mouthpieces as possible.

Ok, my most comfortable mouthpiece on trumpet is the Yamaha 14D4. It works also very well on my rotary trumpet, very easy playing. But the sound is very close to a perinet trumpet so though it works I still have no good result. The rotary asks for another setup.
And how to conclude that something works. Someone can play on a (too) big mouthpiece and suppose that he (or she) has a big sound. The public hears only an undefined mess.

Shoe size, what does that mean? Real size in mm? Or size as it feels (that can depend on rim contour)? And Bobby Shew, he uses different sizes for regular playing and lead playing. Is that the same as walking on size 9 and running on size 7? I play bigger size on my rotary than on my perinet trumpets. And smaller size on my rotary flügel. And different sizes on my short and long cornet. All are balanced with the horn. So what about shoe size?

Try many, many mp's in a shop. This is IMO a wrong way to go. I am in this subject a true follower of the great Rowuk: people are creatures of habit, a pro will adapt to a new mouthpiece in maybe two weeks, an amateur needs a few months, maybe half a year, maybe he will never adapt. So messing around in a shop makes no sense.

So what is left is the gradual approach, something like Warburton describes on their site. Choose something in the middle, go from there with a little bigger or smaller and so on. Backbore little bigger, smaller. Maybe the throat from #27 to #26, things like that. But take time for everything. And the mouthpiece must be balanced with the horn. It took me years to really hear and feel the result of different backbores. I think someone is on the right track if he can order a mouthpiece by a custom maker and can give all the specs he wants, ID, OD, rim contour, cup depth, cup form, entrance to the throat, throat size, backbore form/size and shank form/weight. Then you seem to have an idea of your mouthpiece.

[deleted_user_687c31b]

[Beanboy128]

Hey y'all I'm back again. Sorry if my wording or previous posts led to arguments. I'm taking all of this advice into consideration and what I mostly got was find what works for me. I'll try and test a bunch of mouthpieces but i have a few things to add
1. I play on a Yamaha 16c4
2. I don't like a Bach 1 1/2 c even though it's pretty much the same.
3. Thanks for all the advice!

Toodles

[deleted_user_687c31b]

[trickg]

I love these mouthpiece threads. There have been SO many of them over the years, and they are mostly the same:

1 - inexperienced player thinks they want a different mouthpiece for a myriad of reasons that may or may not have anything to do with how their current mouthpiece actually performs for them.

2 - people pile in and get in big arguments, and the thread rolls around, often times with little additional interaction from the person who started the the thread to begin with.

3 - advice often will run the range, and usually several suggestions are made before someone comes along with the more common-sense approach and asks the original poster what it is about their current equipment is no longer getting the job done the way they think it should.

It's interesting how divisive a topic the trumpet mouthpiece can be.

It's also interesting how many young/inexperienced players will screw themselves up buying and trying mouthpieces as a means to find a solution that could probably be found without making any equipment changes, but would be drastically improved with some additional insightful practice. I say this because I did it myself when I was in 10th grade - I got this idea that I "needed" a new/different/better mouthpiece, and I made a change based on very little "need," but more because I wanted something shiny and new. Then I spent a couple of months playing rather poorly trying to force myself to acclimate to a new mouthpiece that I didn't need - I had no idea in the 10th grade that there are better and worse ways to try to acclimate to new equipment.

to Beanboy128 I'll ask the question - why do you think you "need" a different mouthpiece? What are your playing goals, and how do you think making a change will help?

To give you an example, I had some very specific reasons I made my last mouthpiece change. I was playing on a Schilke 14A4 for the work I was doing getting paid gigging with the wedding band, and I was hoping to find something with a rim that was a bit less "soft" and more defined with the idea that I might be able to eke out a bit better accuracy, particularly when picking off lines in the upper register. I called Warburton and spoke with Ken Titmus, told him what I was currently playing and what I was hoping to gain, and HE turned me on to what I'm currently playing. He also gave me advice on what to expect during the acclimation phase - he specifically said that I might lose my top few notes in range, but not to worry because I'd get them back and they'd be stronger than they were. Had I not known to expect this, I may have given up on that change when that in fact occurred.

I know my post is getting wordy, but the point I'm trying to make is that there should be some specific goals in mind for why you believe a change is warranted other than thinking you need to move up to a "big boy" mouthpiece. There is no such thing as a "big boy" mouthpiece - just difference sizes from different makers, and different characteristics which may or may not help you toward your playing goals.
_________________
Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler

"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP

[Beanboy128]

Okay, why I dislike my Bach,
It feels less comfortable on my face, high notes are harder and I'm not sure how to describe it but it just doesn't feel right. I play Bach on trombone and bass trombone and they feel fine I just don't like my trumpet one.
Also I got a chance to try a friends Monette. I probably just haven't had enough time to really try it but I wasn't impressed.

[trickg]

[royjohn]

Hey Benboy128,
FWIW, I have never had to acclimate to a mpc for weeks or months to know whether it was a good change for me or not. When trying mpcs, they either feel better or they don't within a few minutes. They either are more flexible or not. They either give me more or easier high range or they don't. That's how I pick. I suppose it's possible that my assessment of a particular mpc would change over time, but I haven't noticed it. YMMV.

Given the above, I agree with some of the other posters that I would analyze what's good about the mpc you're playing and what's bad. Then I would pick something slightly larger or smaller in ID than my current piece and experiment from there. If a little bigger (for example) seems better, try something a little bigger than that. And so on. Home in on a size that seems most comfortable. Then you might look at cup depths which are a little smaller and bigger. Eventually you should find something you might like.

There are ways to minimize the money you spend on a mpc safari. You can look for used mpcs here in the marketplace. You can buy with a return privilege from Mouthpiece Express and other sellers. They will charge your card for what you buy and then credit back to it any and all returns. You might even try borrowing mpcs from friends for a trial.

If you experiment systematically you should eventually get an idea of what works for you. At that point if you want to experiment with different rims, throat sizes and backbores, you can fine tune things further. However, if you use a standard rim and find your preferred ID and cup depth, you should be well on your way. This isn't rocket science, just careful experimentation.

I suppose it goes without saying that there is no "big boy mouthpiece," only big boys who make big boy choices...
_________________
royjohn
Trumpets: 1928 Holton Llewellyn Model, 1957 Holton 51LB, 2010 Custom C by Bill Jones, 2011 Custom D/Eb by Bill Jones
Flugels: 1975 Olds Superstar, 1970's Elkhardt, 1970's Getzen 4 valve
Cornet: 1970's Yamaha YCR-233S . . . and others . . .

[Jaw04]

A mouthpiece change usually feels good and interesting at first. It also makes you hear yourself different so yours ears perk up and you start to actually listen to how you sound! But after a while that new exciting feeling wears off, and you get out of the "honeymoon period" with the new mouthpiece.

You need to spend a long time with a mouthpiece before you can decide if its right for you. I would say a few months and a few gigs, if you play gigs.

[deleted_user_687c31b]

[trickg]