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VINCENT BACH CORP. 10 1/2 C



 
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jvf1095
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Joined: 18 Jan 2019
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:16 am    Post subject: VINCENT BACH CORP. 10 1/2 C Reply with quote

Hello. Just picked up a VINCENT BACH CORP. 10 1/2 C. Tall lettering, all capitals with the DOT at the end). Any stats on this? Era, age, dimensions, etc. I have a PEAK 7C that has tighter bore (or back bore). I know this because just blowing air through them, the PEAK 7C has more resistance. I saw other new generic 10 1/2 C's out there on EBAY & Amazon called student types. Someone commented on them & said the throat on the student 10 1/2 C was not as wide as the Bach Version. (Tighter I guess they meant). Anyone know about this older Bach versus the newer versions? They only want $14 for the new one. Thanks & Happy New Year to all.
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amboguzzi
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 7:48 pm    Post subject: Bach 10 1/2C Reply with quote

I have several older Bach 10 1/2 C's. I have a Mt. Vernon with dots, 1953-59. I have two Mt. Vernon's, no dots, 1960-1964, which are much smaller than the dot model. This was the piece that came with my trumpet when I began playing. Feels too small to me now. I have a CORP, no dot, 1964-1969, which is large. Larger than a Mt. Vernon 7C, no dots, but smaller than a 7C CORP. I believe your mouthpiece was produced from the early 70's to early 90's. Check the Bach Loyalist site for information on dating.
So a 10 1/2C could be many different sizes, depending on the year it was produced and by who made the piece.
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jvf1095
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Anthony
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Dale Proctor
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Bach 10 1/2C Reply with quote

amboguzzi wrote:
I have several older Bach 10 1/2 C's. I have a Mt. Vernon with dots, 1953-59. I have two Mt. Vernon's, no dots, 1960-1964, which are much smaller than the dot model. This was the piece that came with my trumpet when I began playing. Feels too small to me now. I have a CORP, no dot, 1964-1969, which is large. Larger than a Mt. Vernon 7C, no dots, but smaller than a 7C CORP. I believe your mouthpiece was produced from the early 70's to early 90's. Check the Bach Loyalist site for information on dating.
So a 10 1/2C could be many different sizes, depending on the year it was produced and by who made the piece.


I had one of those later Mt. Vernon 10-1/2 C mouthpieces, and man, was it small. I also had one from the early ‘70s that was much larger and more playable. I sold the Mt. Vernon one and still have the later one.
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jvf1095
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks. I did order what they call a "student" 10.5 C mouthpiece, brand new, not from years ago because as everyone said here, depending on when it was made they are all different. Good thing is, this new one can be returned if I don't like it. I will put one layer of tape around it before trying it on my horn so I don't put a mark on it, & completely sanitize it if I do send it back. But I'm just curious to see of it is any different, (throat, rim, cup, etc). I realize that a mouthpiece alone is not the total answer, but if you find a piece of equipment that fits you, it has to be a help toward improving your playing ability.
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Using a Q-tip as a 'feeler' can be a guide about whether the throat size is larger/small in different mouthpieces. Use a single Q-tip and just compare the tightness feel - no it won't tell you the drill# size, but can be useful to determine relative difference.
And there's always the 'dime method' of judging relative difference in rim ID - but again no actual number, or much info about the 'bite'. Maybe the 'thumb test'?
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King Super 20 (S2 1048, HN White)
Bach 7
The 'next note' is the most important one.
Don't take a '20 minute mouthpiece' to a 1 hour session.
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GeorgeB
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still have a VINCENT BACH NEW YORK 10.5C mouthpiece that I purchased with my Conn 28B Constellation trumpet in 1953 when I started playing. I used that mp between 1953 and 1965 when I quit playing. I tried using it again when I made my comeback in 2016 but the magic had gone. There were too many changes in my 79 year old body and face, including a full set of upper dentures. But it did everything I wanted for me back in the day. I still play it now and then for old times sake.
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jvf1095
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Jay. Wow! Believe it or not, I did think of & use the q-tip method to check the throats of mouthpieces I have! The tightest is a PEAK 7C. Never thought about the dime method. the Bach 10.5 C is more open. Can't wait to get this student version of the 10.5 C to check it. Will try the dime test on all too. Thanks Jay!
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Pete
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just measured a few mouthpieces for you with calipers.

Mt. Vernon Corp (no dot) 7C- .642
Mt. Vernon Corp (no dot) 10 ½ C - .620
VB Corp. 10 ½ C - .640
VB Corp. 7C- .660
VB Corp (no dot)- .662
My Warburton 5M- .650

The backbores on the Mount Vernons are close to my Warburton 9* bb. The regular Corp. mouthpiece backbores are close to my 7*bb.

Pete
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jvf1095
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you. Interesting. I can now see further how different these mouthpieces are. Reading about Bach mouthpieces in particular, the "knock" if I can say it that way, is that there was no consistency through the years with that manufacturer. Now I really can't wait till this student 10.5 C comes to compare it to the old Bach 10.5C I have.

Thing is too, I'm a comeback player, from about 55 years ago. I'm coming along & have a few mouthpieces. I want to hang on to them, even if either of the 10.5C's work for me because I'm assuming that as I go along & improve & my embouchure gets stronger, one of the mouthpieces that doesn't work for me now, might work down the road. Honestly, I just want to be able to hit a high C above the staff clean. Don't care if I don't scream beyond that. This because 98% of what I'm looking to play right now doesn't even require that. At this point, I can hit an F no sweat.
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jvf1095 wrote:
... Honestly, I just want to be able to hit a high C above the staff clean. Don't care if I don't scream beyond that. This because 98% of what I'm looking to play right now doesn't even require that. At this point, I can hit an F no sweat.

---------------------------
Finding a mouthpiece that is about the right size and does not cause pain or injury is foremost.
Range improvements above F (top line of staff) depends much more on embouchure technique than on a particular mpc. If you are now trying to expand you higher notes by mouthpiece pressure, or the stretching and thinning your lips - that's the wrong way, it might work for a few more notes, but will cause trouble later. Look thru the High Range Development forum and find posts that discuss what is 'good technique'.
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King Super 20 (S2 1048, HN White)
Bach 7
The 'next note' is the most important one.
Don't take a '20 minute mouthpiece' to a 1 hour session.
http://users.hancock.net/jkosta/2020_Dec_17_Snow_2_small.jpg
Big Snow 1 week before Christmas
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jvf1095
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Was hoping to get some sound advice to be able to play better in the upper register. I'll definitely look there. Thanks!
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Winghorn
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used to have a Mt. Vernon Bach mouthpiece catalog and remember the description given for the 10 1/2C model.

It was described as the best all-around mouthpiece that was played by many symphony musicians and dance band players. It think it was also described as being popular with female cornet players.

I have a new old-stock Mt. Vernon Bach 10 1/2 C trumpet mouthpiece and it is indeed quite small. But even though I usually play a 1 1/2C, I find that I can play the 10 1/2C without too much difficulty. It has a lovely sound but unsurprisingly, I am unable to match the volume of my larger 'pieces.

I believe Conte Candoli played a Bach 10 1/2C with the wider, "W" rim.
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Ed Kennedy
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jvf1095 wrote:
Hello Jay. Wow! Believe it or not, I did think of & use the q-tip method to check the throats of mouthpieces I have! The tightest is a PEAK 7C. Never thought about the dime method. the Bach 10.5 C is more open. Can't wait to get this student version of the 10.5 C to check it. Will try the dime test on all too. Thanks Jay!


I have an Endsley throat guage, but I don't think they are available any more. You can buy a set of index drills. Just get individually #28 - 20. When the drill won't drop through it is the previous number. Say you have a 25 throat, 28-25 will drop through, 24 will not. There you go.
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jvf1095
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great Ed! Thanks!!
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