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Selmer Paris Flugelhorn



 
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adrian90
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Joined: 14 Jan 2021
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:59 pm    Post subject: Selmer Paris Flugelhorn Reply with quote

Hi

Since I have been exploring the internet (inclusive this forum) about Selmer Paris Flugelhorn, I've come to the conclusion there is almost none information about it out there! This made me come to the conclusion that I have to post my Selmer Paris Flugelhorn, to expand the very limited intel there is about this delicate subject. Someone wrote that Selmer Paris Flugel might just be a legend. It's not - it exists, so all you nerds out there now know it!

I have been trying to find some information about which year it was first made (serial number 607) but it was hard to find, since from my understanding Selmer Paris Flugelhorns do not follow the same numbers as trumpets do. There is very limited knowledge out there about this subject - probably because there almost isn't any Selmer flugelhorns left (they are rare, especially this model) and thereby no demand on such delicate matters. I've also mailed Selmer but they are slow answerers (I hope that I get an answer!).

If this flugelhorn was to follow the same serials as trumpets do, it would have been dated to somewhere around 1930's. But I have read about other Selmerflugels which had serial 9xx and was made in the early 60's. Selmer horns had the inscription Grand Prix up to early 50's, to be exchanged with K-modified somewhere in the mid 50's. This flugel has neither of them, but on the bell it says Déposé bréveté something, and Selmer Paris. Also, if I have understood this correctly, Clark Terry was the first who somehow invented this model in November 1957, which then became a new product line at Selmer. The flower-inscription on the horn and the fact that it's wellbuilt and in good condition also speaks for late 50's. So my guess is that it was made around 1960.

It's a lovely horn which I am honored to be in possession with. Still, not the best intonation, but I like it since that is my kind of style. Mellow, blue and expressive.

Any further information about this jazzhorn is most utterly welcome, if any of you sits on any. It is hard to find any out there.

Also, what could the original lacquer of this horn have been? Any guess? In the inaccessable parts, like between the valves, there is small amounts of traces of a coating which looks like copper-ish in color. Or is it the gold-brass color it has now which is the original lacquer-plating?






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Yamaha 8310z trumpet
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Selmer Paris Flugelhorn ca 1960
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HERMOKIWI
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Joined: 24 Dec 2008
Posts: 2578

PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Selmer Paris Flugelhorn Reply with quote

adrian90 wrote:
It's a lovely horn which I am honored to be in possession with. Still, not the best intonation, but I like it since that is my kind of style. Mellow, blue and expressive.


People are very protective of their investments in horns and have a tendency to justify those investments in their descriptions of their horns but the truth is (to your credit as you've expressed) that flugelhorns have funky intonation issues beyond the issues typical of trumpets. So, "not the best intonation" comes with the territory when you play a flugelhorn, especially in the low register. That's where the player, and art, comes into the picture.

Yes, Clark played a Selmer flugelhorn during his career and he's a stellar example of what can be achieved on a type of horn that leaves so much to the skill and artistic talent of the player.

I have three Selmer trumpets in my collection. A Selmer Balanced (Louis Armstrong and Harry James), a Selmer K-Modified (Buck Clayton) and a Chorus 80J (Terrell Stafford, at least for awhile) and they are awesome precision horns.
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Goby
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm hoping other can chime in with more info, but here's what I know:

Chet Baker and Clark Terry both played that particular model of Selmer flugel. At the time, Selmer was a top brass manufacturer, and these horns would have been expensive. The flugels with the strange valve configuration are quite valuable to collectors today. Your horn looks to be in original lacquer. At the time, it would have been a nitrocellulose based lacquer, and according to Selmer advertisements from the period, 12 coats of lacquer were applied. Whether or not this is verifiable, I can't say. However, there are lots of vintage Selmer Paris horns with an awesome honey colored lacquer that still look great 70+ years after being built.

You might want to contact the Selmer Loyalist, or at least check out the webpage

http://rouses.net/trumpet/selmer.htm
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blbaumgarn
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:22 pm    Post subject: selmer paris flugelhorn Reply with quote

I am constantly amazed seeing these older horns that people find in such good shape. The engraving is always amazing and if a person plays them much they own a great piece of musical history.
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Tony Scodwell
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 10:21 am    Post subject: Intonation on flugelhorns Reply with quote

To answer Hermokiwi's post regarding inherent intonation problems with flugelhorns, I must chime in.

Perhaps he needs to play some of the modern flugelhorns before making a statement like that. The Shew Yamaha is a good example. Bobby lobbied Yamaha to produce a new and improved version of the Couesnon he had been playing and the new Yamaha (at that time) was a superb instrument retaining the classic French sound and feel but with flawless intonation. Stomvi is another example out there today. The Vintage One Conn that Fred Powell developed is yet another. The newest Getzen is a fine instrument and yes, my Scodwell USA got rave reviews on both the sound and intonation.

I absolutely love playing flugelhorn and want people to know the "inherent" intonation problems on flugelhorns is not an issue any longer.

Tony Scodwell
www.scodwellusa.com
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HERMOKIWI
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Joined: 24 Dec 2008
Posts: 2578

PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 11:26 am    Post subject: Re: Intonation on flugelhorns Reply with quote

Tony Scodwell wrote:
To answer Hermokiwi's post regarding inherent intonation problems with flugelhorns, I must chime in.

Perhaps he needs to play some of the modern flugelhorns before making a statement like that. The Shew Yamaha is a good example. Bobby lobbied Yamaha to produce a new and improved version of the Couesnon he had been playing and the new Yamaha (at that time) was a superb instrument retaining the classic French sound and feel but with flawless intonation. Stomvi is another example out there today. The Vintage One Conn that Fred Powell developed is yet another. The newest Getzen is a fine instrument and yes, my Scodwell USA got rave reviews on both the sound and intonation.

I absolutely love playing flugelhorn and want people to know the "inherent" intonation problems on flugelhorns is not an issue any longer.

Tony Scodwell
www.scodwellusa.com


You don't have to ever lip up or lip down or use an adjustment to a slide on these horns to correct an intonation issue? They all play with perfect pitch on every note every time? They all have no inherent intonation issues whatsoever?

I have three modern flugelhorns: An Adams F2, a Kanstul 1525 and a Schagerl Killer Queen. They all have slide adjusters and those adjusters are there to correct the intonation issues inherent to flugelhorns. None of them have inherent "flawless intonation" although I would expect them to have fewer intonation issues than the OP's Selmer.

The only instrument I've ever heard of with inherent "flawless intonation" is Professor Willem Von Schmutzig's "Schmutzolette", a fictitious instrument that looks like several woodwinds attached to a large vacuum cleaner which he describes as being impervious to wrong notes in addition to being perfectly in tune in his parody book on woodwind methods entitled "Incomplete Method fur die Holzblasinstrumente." I'm not aware of a real life flugelhorn equivalent to the fictitious Schmutzolette.
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