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What will be the "legendary" vintage horn of the f


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jhatpro
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scodwell
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Claude1949
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

blownchops wrote:
tptptp wrote:
I have two Blackburn Bb trumpets which both play and sound great, and are in great shape. They are conventional-looking horns, of course. Not a huge number of Blackburns have been made.
So, when someone finds one of mine in 50 years, they will have found a rare gem, and it may cost them a lot if the brand and reputation are still talked about a lot.
So if the formula is rarity+quality+condition+"hype" these horns will be valued.



Blackburn makes perfect sense to be highly desired in the future.


Disagree...I have a Blackburn 3c mouthpiece & its not even as good as my Bach 3........why would the trumpets be any better?
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Claude1949
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Galileodolce trumpets seem to me like they will be classics in the years to come.....
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Phoenix864
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Claude1949 wrote:
blownchops wrote:
tptptp wrote:
I have two Blackburn Bb trumpets which both play and sound great, and are in great shape. They are conventional-looking horns, of course. Not a huge number of Blackburns have been made.
So, when someone finds one of mine in 50 years, they will have found a rare gem, and it may cost them a lot if the brand and reputation are still talked about a lot.
So if the formula is rarity+quality+condition+"hype" these horns will be valued.



Blackburn makes perfect sense to be highly desired in the future.


Disagree...I have a Blackburn 3c mouthpiece & its not even as good as my Bach 3........why would the trumpets be any better?


That's a pretty big generalization to make. The Blackburn 3C might not work for you, but that doesn't change the fact that Blackburn's manufacturing is objectively high-quality, producing horns that many covet today. While nothing particularly stands out about Blackburns to me, I could definitely see how such a well-made and boutique horn could garner a long-term following.

Claude1949 wrote:
Galileodolce trumpets seem to me like they will be classics in the years to come.....


Galileodolce seems to be completely opposite from everything I would expect from a 'classic tier' horn. The horns look nice, but their prices are suspiciously cheap (I can't imagine the quality of their $1200 horn is anywhere near the established builders selling horns for 3x that price or more), they don't seem to have much of a reputation, and there don't seem to be any notable design innovations.

Why would they be a classic compared to builders like Monnette, Harrelson, Blackburn, Taylor, and others, who meet all or most of that criteria?
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trickg
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The trumpet reached a pinnacle of design in the 1920s with the French Besson. Everything after that has been mostly a copy or refinement of that design, and there are more great horns than you can shake a stick at - the market is literally saturated.

So with that in mind, the horns that will be most sought after in 50-70 years will be the same ones that people foolishly buy now, all whilst ignoring the superior designs and innovations of the present.
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tptptp
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Claude1949"
Disagree...I have a Blackburn 3c mouthpiece & its not even as good as my Bach 3........why would the trumpets be any better?[/quote]

That is such a funny statement. Thanks for the laugh.
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Claude1949
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tptptp wrote:
[quote="Claude1949"
Disagree...I have a Blackburn 3c mouthpiece & its not even as good as my Bach 3........why would the trumpets be any better?


That is such a funny statement. Thanks for the laugh.[/quote]

Should mention that I did try one years ago & was NOT impressed; in fact it seemed cheaply made!
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blownchops
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Claude1949 wrote:


Should mention that I did try one years ago & was NOT impressed; in fact it seemed cheaply made!



I feel like remarks like this significantly lower one's credibility.
Blackburn makes a high quality product that is used daily by professionals the world over.

I strongly question your motives of hyping an obscure brand of cheap and questionably built horns while trashing one of the most respected and legitimate names in custom and customized trumpets.

Not to mention you are entirely off topic at this point.
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huntman10
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I say this hoping no one takes this as a political statement, but my observation of cultural changes.

First, I would say that if trumpet playing is still a "thing" in 50 or 100 years, or even if music is participated by "organic beings", the tastes of the audience and performers may drive the popularity of any given trumpet. Secondly, given the rush of large music manufacturer's to Chinese facilities, it seems to me unlikely that anything short of very limited "boutique" production anywhere outside the PRC. Additionally, the potential of a 3D printed instrument might be possible. Possibly even reproducing corroded Strad or even Monette parts from recycled Bundy atoms! 😉😉

Having said all that, no prediction will likely be any more likely than any other, except maybe the unlikely popularity of 1970's Bundys.
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Getzen
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While I agree that there has been a rush to off shore production in the last few decades, I disagree that the only remaining manufacturers are going to be “boutique”. There are still some of us left today with zero plans of ever changing course. Not many, but some. We’ve made it 82 years so far. With innovation, quality, and the support of musicians we hope to make it at least 82 more.

It is clear that our industry specifically and music in general is changing, but that’s nothing new. Everything changes. But I truly believe there will be brass musical instruments in live musical performances for the foreseeable future. Not like it was 50 or 25 years ago or even like today, but it will be there in some form or another.

Of course, that could be wishful thinking for my great grandkids sake.
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huntman10
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brett, if I can be so informal,

I was thinking about your family as I wrote this, and secretly hoping I was TOTALLY WRONG. I got my first Getzen, a 4 valve Eterna Flugelhorn exactly 50 years ago last week (it is still a gorgeous example). Then a Severinsen Eterna, 391 Eb/D, then an Eb Eterna trumpet.. Eterna cornet..I may be forgetting a few, but still have all those models... I still keep a "set" of Eternas close by, and just finished my warmup for the night on my old Eterna D. For years, I devoured all those "Clinic Notes" and other publications from Getzen. I probably ought to update my "working horn" but I focus on the great old horns of the 40's through the 70's.

I actually share your HOPE for a future of traditional music values, and firmly believe the value to society of participation, not just by pros, but anyone who wants to make a little music is profound. And I think the potential for bringing traditional craftsmanship and computer controlled machining, such as printing on an atomic level to create super stable metals may be possible.

My post was, frankly, a dystopic one, since I have reached the "Get off my lawn" phase of life, But I do feel that the popular horn characteristics of the future will be driven by changing tastes. I think if I walked into a gig in a swing band of the 40's with a Taylor Chicago II (well, someone who plays a lot better then I) no one would understand why use that horn!

And I worry that as a society, we are addicted to too many cheaply made (make that slave labor) products. I have seen too many industries that have moved completely out of the US, as well as other "Western" countries. [/b]
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Winghorn
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Totally hand-made instruments like Blackburns and my Severinsen Destino 5* can show small irregularities not found in instruments that are machine finished or use generally available standardized parts in their manufacture. To me, this is part of their charm and certainly not indicative of being cheaply made.

My Monette 935 trumpet displayed unfinished seams in the slide tubing, as well as indentations inside the bell and tuning slide curves from the tooling used to bend them. The outer slide tubes where they entered the valve casing had asymmetrical bulges where they were enlarged by hand to increase the air flow. The piston ports were likewise flared by hand with a file. The Monette was built and finished for one purpose- to play great! No cheapness here.

Anyway, one player's opinion does not a reality make. I would love to own a Blackburn trumpet!
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kevin_soda
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

People have not been this hungry for live music in 100 years. I don't think we'll be entirely replaced by machines and computers in this generation.
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Winghorn
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not sure tastes for particular trumpet sounds will necessary change in the future. Even after 3-400 years, the sound of a Stradivari or Guarneri del Gesu violin is still considered by most to be the ultimate in sound and response.

A beautiful sound is a beautiful sound, and many of the classic trumpets can produce beautiful sounds. I personally don't care for the sound of some of the latest boutique horns, especially the ones that are heavy and are adorned with fins, sheet bracing and the like. They often sound dull and one-dimensional to me. Of course, this is just my opinion.

I personally hope the Getzen family and other companies like it continue to produce instruments with a traditionally beautiful sound for years and years to come.
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blbaumgarn
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:21 pm    Post subject: what will be the legendary horns of the future? Reply with quote

I am like many who hope to have young and older people still playing the rich history of traditional music that we have. I believe there will be that future because much of what I hear today isn't music....at the very least it isn't musical much at all. I also believe that people want to attend live musical events. Chris Botti fills halls up along with others. I have been visiting this website long enough to realize that as long as there are Getzens, and Austin Custom Brass, to just pick out a couple names we will have plenty of outlets for people to choose their instrument and play whatever they want. Schools of Music have grown and become colleges, As long as we have craftsmen and women around to do their magic on older horns we will be able to experience
what that Besson sounded like, or the early Bach. I had nearly three months using a Getzen Severinsen back in 1971 and what a blast that was. Now that is much a vintage horn and I would be privileged to play one like it everyday. I hope we are going forward musically but relying and looking back at the history of instruments, too.
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tptva004
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fun thread idea! I’m sure I’m as wrong as the rest of us, but it’s fun to think about. I will make two specific predictions

Edwards x13 (or a 50th Anniversary reiisue) - it is beautiful to look at and seems to be super versatrile. I haven’t played one, but i anticipate being able to do so whenever covid allwos the next HR Trumpet Hang since ACB will be there!

Schilke B series - not the hd or s series, or their handcraft, but the B series. There aren’t a super ton of them made (lerss than 50,000 I think) and between the B3 and B7, you have a huge range of styles and sounds. Plus i think they’ve lost the market penetration they had which means they’ll get more rare in the next 50 years.

Both brands have a reputation for quality (much deserved based on my B3). Plus. they’re made well and made in the US which I think many of us argue will be important.
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HERMOKIWI
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Musical instruments have evolved over the centuries. The process has worked to apply technology to redefine the instruments in ways that make their predecessors obsolete. It's a process that can reasonably be predicted to continue.

Imagine a trumpet redefined by the technology of electronics and computer science. It's still a trumpet, it's still a wind instrument and it still operates with buzzing lips and valve operation (or at least pushing buttons), but now it has the ability to tune itself perfectly on every note, the ability to detect the intended note and filter out mistakes, the ability to adjust the tone to the desired timbre and quality and the ability to make it far easier to play than it is today.

Purists and traditionalists may recoil at the thought of this but what about the musicians of the future? When I read comments on TH one thing is consistent: We want better results with less effort. Isn't that the goal of technology?

So, my prediction is that in the time mentioned by the OP (50 to 70 years from now) electronics and computer science will have been integrated into the trumpet in ways we can only dream about now and that, as a result, all the trumpets that have ever been made up to now will become obsolete relics, curiosities of the past which are collected for historical purposes only. The trumpets that will be lusted over will be those offering the greatest technological advantages.
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austincustombrass
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a cool thread! Here are a few of my thoughts...

While there will never be another Committee or Connstellation a few of the newer-designed horns that might have that same panache 50-60 years from now are:

Edwards X-13 (truly a remarkable creation)
Coppernicus (yes I am highly biased but I believe this horn is truly special)
The Monette Flumpet or Cornette (IMO Dave's greatest designs and total works of art)
Van Laar Oiram
AR Resonance Estrema (frankly any model)
Posseger with MAW option (Toni's instruments are extremely underrated)
Blackburn L1
Schagerl Raweni (Raven)


Some more "conventional" makers are making great horns as well!

Yamaha Bobby Shew II
Bach 190S 37
Getzen Eterna Deluxe (My cornet is arguably my favorite instrument right now)
Schilke Faddis S-43HD (I think that's the model #?)



That being said I think the horns we currently covet from 50-60 years ago if maintained will still be there (like my Olds Super Recordings and besson trumpet)

It's always fun to think about what might be!

Best,
T
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Getzen
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Question. If the trumpets of the future will be able to tune themselves, adjust their own timbre/sound based on the piece being played, and adjust themselves to only play the proper notes why will there be a need for a trumpet player? It seems to me, at that point, we will no longer have musicians. Instead we will have a hybrid of song writers, composers, and programmers. That's a scary thought.
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HERMOKIWI
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Getzen wrote:
Question. If the trumpets of the future will be able to tune themselves, adjust their own timbre/sound based on the piece being played, and adjust themselves to only play the proper notes why will there be a need for a trumpet player? It seems to me, at that point, we will no longer have musicians. Instead we will have a hybrid of song writers, composers, and programmers. That's a scary thought.


It's hard to imagine a trumpet that plays only correct notes but who knows how far technology will go? I think a corollary issue is the question of how people will regard music in the distant future. Will it be just a commodity or will it be art based on skill? If it's regarded just as a commodity then it will trend toward the sound being everything and the process by which the sound is produced being irrelevant. So, yes, technology could have a very dramatic impact on the survival of some instruments as we know them and/or on the way they are played.

In the meantime I'll keep playing my horn collection which, incidentally, includes a Getzen Severinsen Eterna large bore that is an awesome horn.
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