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Sovereign problems again


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Louise Finch
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Joined: 10 Aug 2012
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Location: Suffolk, England

PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2015 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GordonH wrote:
Here is a web page which tells you all about Tommy Wilson:

http://londoncitadelband.on.ca/tommy_wilson_bio.htm

"In the early 1970’s I was asked by Denis Wick if I would help him develop a cornet mouthpiece – and the rest, as they say, is history. It was also round about this time I was asked by Boosey & Hawkes if I would help in the development of a new cornet for them. After a lot of hard work the first large bore Sovereign cornet was born. I still play the original prototype. It’s still going strong after over 30 years. It was stamped No. 1, (which causes the customs people more than a little curiosity when London Citadel Band goes on trips)."


Hi GordonH

Again very interesting.

Thank you very much.

Take Care

Lou
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Manus
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 4:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haven't read all posts but have you tried the McCann mouthpiece?
It really worked for me!
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Manus wrote:
Haven't read all posts but have you tried the McCann mouthpiece?
It really worked for me!


Hi Manus

No I haven't. Thank you very much however for the suggestion. Although distributed by Bill Lewington, I always wonder whether they would be a better match for a Yamaha cornet, since Phillip McCann was involved in the design process of the Yamaha Maestro cornet. Are you playing it on a Sovereign?

I also wonder about how far it inserts into the receiver, and whether it inserts the same amount as a Yamaha cornet mouthpiece. I have come to the conclusion that the modern Sovereign may require the insertion amount of the modern Denis Wick cornet mouthpieces which insert less far than older Denis Wick cornet mouthpieces, and considerably less far than Yamaha cornet mouthpieces.

Take Care

Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
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TKSop
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the 16E isn't suitable in this context then the McCann won't be either.
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TKSop wrote:
If the 16E isn't suitable in this context then the McCann won't be either.


Hi Tom

Thank you. I use the 16E on my Xeno, but I don't like it anywhere near as much on my Sovereign. I asked, because I have only seen players ysing the Lewington McCann mouthpiece on Yamaha cornets.

Take care

Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
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Manus
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know some people who is using it for Sovereign but I use it for Xeno and Neo.
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Manus wrote:
I know some people who is using it for Sovereign but I use it for Xeno and Neo.


Hi Manus

Thank you very much. You mention the Xeno and Neo, do you own both? If so, how please do you find that they compare, and which do you prefer?

Personally, I am very fond of my Xeno.

Take Care

Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
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Manus
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I started off with the Xeno but it got stolen in the car
So now im on the Neo and I think there is a huge difference both in sound and playing with Neo taking the lead.
I'd been playing some Besson cornets and some have been very good and some very poor. Are you sure you just dont have a "monday-model"? It sounds to me that you need to fight to much
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trumpet56
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PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2015 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Manus wrote:
I started off with the Xeno but it got stolen in the car
So now im on the Neo and I think there is a huge difference both in sound and playing with Neo taking the lead.
I'd been playing some Besson cornets and some have been very good and some very poor. Are you sure you just dont have a "monday-model"? It sounds to me that you need to fight to much


I think Manus has hit the nail on the head. No matter what the brand is there are good and bad instruments. Brass instruments that suit you and those that don't, whether it is a Bach, Schilke, Besson, Yamaha, etc etc. Try as many brands as possible and choose the cornet that best fits your sound concept and playability IMHO
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teddytrumpet
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PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2015 2:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Lou,

Just a thought - have you tried the Harrelson Gap kit? From reading through the thread, it sounds like it's the receiver gap that causing the issues. Could be a good solution. Have you measured the gap at all?

Here is a great article Jason wrote on gap and how it can affect your instrument - from what you're describing, it sounds like it's the gap that's the issue and not the mouthpieces.

http://whyharrelson.weebly.com/jasons-blog/achieving-optimum-mouthpiece-gap-in-3-steps-part-ii

I've had this issue on an instrument before and ended up having the receiver re-soldered to reduce the amount of gap to under 1mm as it was a huge gap previously (over 4mm) and no matter what mouthpiece I used, the horn was always stuffy and felt out of balance. It was a 10 minute job for the repair guy and resolved over a year of trying different mouthpieces.

Cheers

Ewan
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2015 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Manus wrote:
I started off with the Xeno but it got stolen in the car

Hi

I'm really sorry to hear this.


So now im on the Neo and I think there is a huge difference both in sound and playing with Neo taking the lead.

That is really interesting. I really like the playability of my Xeno, and if the Neo plays and sounds even better, I'd love to give one a try.

I'd been playing some Besson cornets and some have been very good and some very poor. Are you sure you just dont have a "monday-model"?

I don't think so. It is probably only sales talk, but Phil Parkers in London reckoned that Roger Webster had personally picked out a couple of really good Sovereigns for them. The other one had already been sold, so presumably it was the better of the two for that particular player, or maybe they were very similar. I just don't know. I however believe that I just cannot find a mouthpiece I like on the Sovereign, or that I simply just don't like it. This is my third Sovereign, and I haven't liked any of them for the same reasons. Don't even ask why I have another one.

It sounds to me that you need to fight to much

I just don't like the way it plays.

Take Care

Lou


_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
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Louise Finch
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Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5461
Location: Suffolk, England

PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2015 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

trumpet56 wrote:
Manus wrote:
I started off with the Xeno but it got stolen in the car
So now im on the Neo and I think there is a huge difference both in sound and playing with Neo taking the lead.
I'd been playing some Besson cornets and some have been very good and some very poor. Are you sure you just dont have a "monday-model"? It sounds to me that you need to fight to much


I think Manus has hit the nail on the head. No matter what the brand is there are good and bad instruments. Brass instruments that suit you and those that don't, whether it is a Bach, Schilke, Besson, Yamaha, etc etc. Try as many brands as possible and choose the cornet that best fits your sound concept and playability IMHO


Hi

I totally agree, and that is why I now have my Xeno.

Take Care

Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
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Louise Finch
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Joined: 10 Aug 2012
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Location: Suffolk, England

PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2015 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

teddytrumpet wrote:
Hi Lou,

Just a thought - have you tried the Harrelson Gap kit? From reading through the thread, it sounds like it's the receiver gap that causing the issues. Could be a good solution. Have you measured the gap at all?

Hi Ewan

No, I haven't. This cornet doesn't have an actual gap, but I have found that varying the insertion amount has the same affect as varying an actual gap. The problem I have found, is that with a Bach style mouthpiece, I need the mouthpiece inserting further to reduce the resistance (I find Kanstul B series backbores which insert further than Bach cornet mouthpieces, very good in this regard), whereas Denis Wick and Alliance mouthpieces insert far less far, but this balances the much larger throat and backbore. I therefore don't know whether I need a greater insertion amount with a Bach style mouthpiece, or I need the insertion amount of a Denis Wick mouthpiece combined with a larger throat and bacbore.


Here is a great article Jason wrote on gap and how it can affect your instrument - from what you're describing, it sounds like it's the gap that's the issue and not the mouthpieces.

http://whyharrelson.weebly.com/jasons-blog/achieving-optimum-mouthpiece-gap-in-3-steps-part-ii

Thanks very much. I'll check this out.

I've had this issue on an instrument before and ended up having the receiver re-soldered to reduce the amount of gap to under 1mm as it was a huge gap previously (over 4mm) and no matter what mouthpiece I used, the horn was always stuffy and felt out of balance. It was a 10 minute job for the repair guy and resolved over a year of trying different mouthpieces.

Definitely worth considering then.

Cheers

Ewan

Thanks very much again.

Take Care

Lou

_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
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Shark
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PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2015 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Manus wrote:
I started off with the Xeno but it got stolen in the car
So now im on the Neo and I think there is a huge difference both in sound and playing with Neo taking the lead.


Can you please expound upon this? I am strongly considering the Neo and would love to hear how it is different from the Xeno.
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grassler
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, what a thread! Of all things, have you guys tried the Blessing mouthpieces? Rims are copies of Bach Mt. Vernon rims (or mouthpieces) and made in Germany to some pretty good standards
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Crazy Finn
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

grassler wrote:
Wow, what a thread! Of all things, have you guys tried the Blessing mouthpieces? Rims are copies of Bach Mt. Vernon rims (or mouthpieces) and made in Germany to some pretty good standards

I have.

I think they are quite solid mouthpieces. I like them better than the current Bach offerings, I think. I've got a trumpet 3C, cornet 3C, and a cornet 4B (Wick type). All good.
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