| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Trumpetstud
Veteran Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2021
Posts: 208
|
 Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 5:22 am Post subject: Phil Driscoll - Jazz? |
 |
|
| I don't think what Phil Driscoll does is considered jazz. What would you call it?I believe its a lot of improvising on music but that doesn't necessarily mean it's jazz right? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
bike&ed
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2004
Posts: 1837
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
Phil has gotten a lot of flak over the years; some of it has been well-deserved, some hasn’t. Whatever one thinks of him as a person, the man can really, really play, and his singing is phenomenal as well (more than a few folks think they’re listening to Ray Charles when they only hear him).
So what would you define “jazz” as? Where is the line? Just curious more than anything else. Phil did lots of ‘purist’ jazz in his youth, and has been doing some non-religious commercial stuff recently too, so ‘normal’ jazz improv is certainly in his vocabulary... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
area51recording
Veteran Member
Joined: 23 Dec 2005
Posts: 480
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I'm sure Phil is a great player.....I just wish he would turn off the damn echo so we can hear what he actually SOUNDS like..... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bflatman
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Nov 2016
Posts: 720
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
The problem as I see it is that while mr Driscoll is playing jazz it is not the kind of jazz that is acceptable to some players.
For some people some jazz is real jazz and other jazz is not good enough.
The jazz of the early greats would not be technically good enough to be called jazz now in some quarters.
I know I will take it in the neck for this but I believe that the jazz of the 20s would not measure up with those who criticise Phil.
His best work sounds very much like the traditional jazz I have heard from Red Nichols and others to numerous to mention I consider Red as being quite good.
Is this a case of all jazz is equal but some jazz is more equal than others.
I appreciate all jazz but some players of "real" jazz laugh at trad jazz. basin street jazz, dixieland jazz.
But you know much of the public do not like modern jazz and large numbers of the public who love music of all kinds laugh at modern jazz and modern jazz musicians in jazz clubs.
Jazz musicians are going to have to face up to this instead of ridiculing the audiences who have turned away from jazz, and ridiculing the people who state that they have.
Even some of the people who work in jazz clubs think that some jazz is ridiculous.
It is time we faced this monster we have created.
Phil Driscoll is a good player and plays jazz
Take a look at this and then read the comments.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TebUMhJAKSM
The comments tell you the standing of jazz in the community, not the opinions of jazz audiences who already love modern jazz.
If you go round a jazz club with a question asking who loves jazz you can expect 100 per cent yes if you go round a shopping mall with that same question you can expect far fewer yeses.
I play to the public, all the public and I know what they like all of them.
I dont play to select audiences who are fans of a single music style.
Jazz used to be loved by everyone but it now has a small audience and that audience is shrinking.
And why is it shrinking and why are jazz musicians ridiculed by large parts of the public, and they are ridiculed.
If there were more jazz musicians like Phil, jazz audiences would be growing not shrinking.
Phil deserves much more respect than he receives
The public doesnt care if the chorus is in double time and modulating between the keys of B and A flat and resolving itself in E they want music they can understand easily, tap their feet to, and dance to.
Phil gives them that in a jazzy way with swing and movement.
What more is needed.
Plenty of musicians think that all the public loves what they love, well that is not true. Around 2 percent of the public do not even like music. And around 10 per cent do not like trumpet music at all unless it is over the hill and far away out of earshot.
Some question if Phil is playing jazz I would question their values.
It is time to ask ourselves what we play for is it to develop jazz or is it to entertain. And if in developing great jazz we stop entertaining and only entertain ourselves what is the point of what we do.
_________________
Conn 80a Cornet
Boosey & Hawkes Emperor Trumpet
Olds Fullerton Special Trumpet
Selmer Invicta Trumpet
Yamaha YCR 2330II Cornet
Selmer Student Trumpet
Bohland and Fuchs peashooter Trumpet
Boosey and Hawkes Regent Cornet
Lark M4045 Cornet |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
loweredsixth
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Feb 2005
Posts: 1844
Location: Fresno, California, USA, North America, Earth, Solar System, Orion Arm, Milky Way Galaxy, Universe
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Bflatman wrote: | The problem as I see it is that while mr Driscoll is playing jazz it is not the kind of jazz that is acceptable to some players.
For some people some jazz is real jazz and other jazz is not good enough.
The jazz of the early greats would not be technically good enough to be called jazz now in some quarters.
I know I will take it in the neck for this but I believe that the jazz of the 20s would not measure up with those who criticise Phil.
His best work sounds very much like the traditional jazz I have heard from Red Nichols and others to numerous to mention I consider Red as being quite good.
Is this a case of all jazz is equal but some jazz is more equal than others.
I appreciate all jazz but some players of "real" jazz laugh at trad jazz. basin street jazz, dixieland jazz.
But you know much of the public do not like modern jazz and large numbers of the public who love music of all kinds laugh at modern jazz and modern jazz musicians in jazz clubs.
Jazz musicians are going to have to face up to this instead of ridiculing the audiences who have turned away from jazz, and ridiculing the people who state that they have.
Even some of the people who work in jazz clubs think that some jazz is ridiculous.
It is time we faced this monster we have created.
Phil Driscoll is a good player and plays jazz
Take a look at this and then read the comments.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TebUMhJAKSM
The comments tell you the standing of jazz in the community, not the opinions of jazz audiences who already love modern jazz.
If you go round a jazz club with a question asking who loves jazz you can expect 100 per cent yes if you go round a shopping mall with that same question you can expect far fewer yeses.
I play to the public, all the public and I know what they like all of them.
I dont play to select audiences who are fans of a single music style.
Jazz used to be loved by everyone but it now has a small audience and that audience is shrinking.
And why is it shrinking and why are jazz musicians ridiculed by large parts of the public, and they are ridiculed.
If there were more jazz musicians like Phil, jazz audiences would be growing not shrinking.
Phil deserves much more respect than he receives
The public doesnt care if the chorus is in double time and modulating between the keys of B and A flat and resolving itself in E they want music they can understand easily, tap their feet to, and dance to.
Phil gives them that in a jazzy way with swing and movement.
What more is needed.
Plenty of musicians think that all the public loves what they love, well that is not true. Around 2 percent of the public do not even like music. And around 10 per cent do not like trumpet music at all unless it is over the hill and far away out of earshot.
Some question if Phil is playing jazz I would question their values.
It is time to ask ourselves what we play for is it to develop jazz or is it to entertain. And if in developing great jazz we stop entertaining and only entertain ourselves what is the point of what we do. |
Ya know bflatman, your views of modern jazz players are just as bad as some musician’s views of early jazz players. Not every jazz musician thinks like this.
The label “jazz” has, for a long time now, been essentially meaningless. It’s too broad to be useful. It almost always needs to have an adjective attached to it to convey any sort of meaningfulness (Latin jazz, smooth jazz, traditional jazz, bebop, funk, hip hop jazz, hard bob, etc.)
The topic of “Is this real jazz or not?” has become very tiresome to a lot of musicians.
_________________
The name I go by in the real world is Joe Lewis |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
area51recording
Veteran Member
Joined: 23 Dec 2005
Posts: 480
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
Does Phil dig what he's doing? I bet he does
Is Phil getting paid to do the playing he does? Most certainly
Is what Phil does "jazz" in the same sense as Miles, Dizzy, Clifford, Randy Brecker, or any of a slew of newer guys? To my ear, not so much
Does Phil care? I'm not in his head, but I'm guessing......no....
It really sounds to me like Phil can cover a pretty wide range of the musical spectrum (again, PLEASE Phil.....turn the echo off!) The fact the when he sings he kind of channels Ray Charles and Joe Cocker certainly doesn't hurt him any....  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jazz_trpt
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Nov 2001
Posts: 5734
Location: Savoy, Illinois, USA
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CalicchioMan
Veteran Member
Joined: 31 May 2004
Posts: 336
Location: Florida
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:40 pm Post subject: Phill Driscoll |
|
|
I agree Jeff...
Best,
Scott
_________________
Yamaha 8310ZII
Yamaha 631G Flugelhorn
Mendini Superbone
Pickett Mouthpieces |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BraeGrimes
Veteran Member
Joined: 14 Apr 2011
Posts: 269
Location: Australia
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 5:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| loweredsixth wrote: |
The label “jazz” has, for a long time now, been essentially meaningless. It’s too broad to be useful. It almost always needs to have an adjective attached to it to convey any sort of meaningfulness (Latin jazz, smooth jazz, traditional jazz, bebop, funk, hip hop jazz, hard bob, etc.)
The topic of “Is this real jazz or not?” has become very tiresome to a lot of musicians. |
100% - I wish we could move beyond genre altogether. I really want to go on a rant about why genre is overwhelmingly bad, but anyone interested can just DM me.
Who cares what it is - if you like it, go for it. If you don't, who cares. I don't like all 'jazz' or all 'classical' or whatever. I like good playing and good music - it's subjective (just like genre is). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
