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Schilke B's.


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blbaumgarn
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Joined: 26 Jul 2017
Posts: 567

PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:57 pm    Post subject: Schilke "B" Reply with quote

Schilke is good, good stuff and a "B" by any number will do you right. As far as the mid-bore goes there might be some differences in projection or other things but it was good enough for Bill Chase and he rocked the world with one.
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OldSchoolEuph
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Joined: 07 Apr 2012
Posts: 1112

PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lawler Bb wrote:
OldSchoolEuph wrote:
To anyone reading this thread for advice:

Ignore the debates.


You don't like the fact that you're being challenged, so just tell the OP to ignore all of the information/"clutter". What a great idea. How about not stating a bunch of misinformation and telling the OP that the rest of us are "clutter"?

Yes, calling Schilke is the best option. But, there are a few very experienced Schilke players chiming in here, including some who play for a living and know what they are talking about. I've been away from TH for awhile, and perhaps I should go back on hiatus......


I can understand your need to be right - marketing is often essential to making a living playing.

Perhaps as promotional ammunition you should consider this: Schilke B-series instruments are not easy to play, specifically because they offer so much advantage in the way of response and flexibility to the skilled player. For those with the physical strength and technical ability, they are fantastic tools, and managing to make one's living, in today's market, using them is evidence in itself of being a top-notch player who can take advantage of all they offer, playing even better as a result.

I don't need to be right - believe whatever you wish. It is quite disappointing to see my statements twisted here. I did not suggest anyone fly to Chicago (if I had suggested flying, it certainly would not have been there). You can try a wide variety of horns just by borrowing from other players. I said Schilke was an orchestral trumpeter and the B1 was what fit his tastes - that is not the same as saying a B1 is a modern orchestral trumpet like a 229 C is. And I never said that a B1 projects "better", I simply stated my observations, and agreed that they were my limited experience, sitting on the audience side.

I wonder if perhaps you have forgotten that the way an accomplished professional, who routinely plays and reinforces fundamentals hours per day, every day, experiences an instrument, is very different from, for instance, the recreational player, who is far more sensitive to things that a technically proficient pro is completely unaware of compensating for or exploiting.

- and that both types of players read this forum.
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Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com

2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20


Last edited by OldSchoolEuph on Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:49 am; edited 1 time in total
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Orban
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Joined: 18 Jun 2018
Posts: 42

PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tested a Schilke B5 against my (then) Yam 5335G.
Quiet At home during 3 day's , one hour each.
The Schilke was ok...but i was not impressed.

I did the same with a Strad 37.
That was a higher class in my view.

PS
I could buy the (mint) Schilke for 1200 dollar.
I didn't.

Now i play a Yam 6335RC.
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Winghorn
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Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Posts: 2035
Location: Olympia, Washington

PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With very few exceptions, one does not add an apostrophe to make a noun plural. You just add an "s" or an "es", depending on the word.
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Lawler Bb
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Joined: 27 Jan 2002
Posts: 1027
Location: Milwaukee, WI

PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OldSchoolEuph wrote:
Lawler Bb wrote:
OldSchoolEuph wrote:
To anyone reading this thread for advice:

Ignore the debates.


You don't like the fact that you're being challenged, so just tell the OP to ignore all of the information/"clutter". What a great idea. How about not stating a bunch of misinformation and telling the OP that the rest of us are "clutter"?

Yes, calling Schilke is the best option. But, there are a few very experienced Schilke players chiming in here, including some who play for a living and know what they are talking about. I've been away from TH for awhile, and perhaps I should go back on hiatus......


I can understand your need to be right - marketing is often essential to making a living playing.

Perhaps as promotional ammunition you should consider this: Schilke B-series instruments are not easy to play, specifically because they offer so much advantage in the way of response and flexibility to the skilled player. For those with the physical strength and technical ability, they are fantastic tools, and managing to make one's living, in today's market, using them is evidence in itself of being a top-notch player who can take advantage of all they offer, playing even better as a result.

I don't need to be right - believe whatever you wish. It is quite disappointing to see my statements twisted here. I did not suggest anyone fly to Chicago (if I had suggested flying, it certainly would not have been there). You can try a wide variety of horns just by borrowing from other players. I said Schilke was an orchestral trumpeter and the B1 was what fit his tastes - that is not the same as saying a B1 is a modern orchestral trumpet like a 229 C is. And I never said that a B1 projects "better", I simply stated my observations, and agreed that they were my limited experience, sitting on the audience side.

I wonder if perhaps you have forgotten that the way an accomplished professional, who routinely plays and reinforces fundamentals hours per day, every day, experiences an instrument, is very different from, for instance, the recreational player, who is far more sensitive to things that a technically proficient pro is completely unaware of compensating for or exploiting.

- and that both types of players read this forum.


You're right Ron, I have forgotten everything I know and didn't really know anything to begin with. I'll go back to marketing my clutter so that I can make a living.

You win. Have a nice day.
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adagiotrumpet
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Joined: 31 May 2006
Posts: 716

PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OldSchoolEuph wrote:
Lawler Bb wrote:
OldSchoolEuph wrote:
To anyone reading this thread for advice:

Ignore the debates.


You don't like the fact that you're being challenged, so just tell the OP to ignore all of the information/"clutter". What a great idea. How about not stating a bunch of misinformation and telling the OP that the rest of us are "clutter"?

Yes, calling Schilke is the best option. But, there are a few very experienced Schilke players chiming in here, including some who play for a living and know what they are talking about. I've been away from TH for awhile, and perhaps I should go back on hiatus......




I can understand your need to be right - marketing is often essential to making a living playing.

Perhaps as promotional ammunition you should consider this: Schilke B-series instruments are not easy to play, specifically because they offer so much advantage in the way of response and flexibility to the skilled player. For those with the physical strength and technical ability, they are fantastic tools, and managing to make one's living, in today's market, using them is evidence in itself of being a top-notch player who can take advantage of all they offer, playing even better as a result.

I don't need to be right - believe whatever you wish. It is quite disappointing to see my statements twisted here. I did not suggest anyone fly to Chicago (if I had suggested flying, it certainly would not have been there). You can try a wide variety of horns just by borrowing from other players. I said Schilke was an orchestral trumpeter and the B1 was what fit his tastes - that is not the same as saying a B1 is a modern orchestral trumpet like a 229 C is. And I never said that a B1 projects "better", I simply stated my observations, and agreed that they were my limited experience, sitting on the audience side.

I wonder if perhaps you have forgotten that the way an accomplished professional, who routinely plays and reinforces fundamentals hours per day, every day, experiences an instrument, is very different from, for instance, the recreational player, who is far more sensitive to things that a technically proficient pro is completely unaware of compensating for or exploiting.

- and that both types of players read this forum.


There is much here that I have to disagree with.

"...Schilke B-series instruments are not easy to play." Nonsense. I have been playing Schilke B-series trumpets for the better part of 50 years, starting in high school with a B1. I bought it because of how easy it was to play. I also play other brands on a regular basis, so rest assured I am not shilling for Schilke.

"...not the same as saying a B1 is a modern orchestral trumpet like a 229C." Well, none of the Bach Bb's are like a 229C either.

"...if I had suggested flying, it would not be there "(Chicago). Why disparage Chicago when the OP has inquired about the Schilke B-series? Again, born and raised in San Francisco. I have no stake in defending Chicago.
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OldSchoolEuph
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Joined: 07 Apr 2012
Posts: 1112

PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

adagiotrumpet wrote:

There is much here that I have to disagree with.

"...Schilke B-series instruments are not easy to play." Nonsense. I have been playing Schilke B-series trumpets for the better part of 50 years, starting in high school with a B1. I bought it because of how easy it was to play. I also play other brands on a regular basis, so rest assured I am not shilling for Schilke.


I keep saying that for those strong enough and skilled enough, they are an unequalled tool. But for those not up to the challenge, they can get away from you. There is also a truth that what is easy for one person may be hard for another and vice-versa - taking us back to the original point that we all have different preferences for centering, resistance, response, etc. But, I stand by the statement that a Schilke B can be much harder for someone less skilled to control than a horn that offers the player less flexibility.

Ponder this: If the B series was the perfect horn for everyone, then why would Schilke have launched the much more solidly centering S series? Could it be that they recognize people are different and want to offer top-notch instruments for more than just one segment of the market?

For that matter: Trumpet is not easy to play (well).

adagiotrumpet wrote:
"...not the same as saying a B1 is a modern orchestral trumpet like a 229C." Well, none of the Bach Bb's are like a 229C either.


I was accused of saying a B1 is a modern orchestral trumpet. It is not. I did not. Stop trying to paint the situation otherwise.

adagiotrumpet wrote:
"...if I had suggested flying, it would not be there "(Chicago). Why disparage Chicago when the OP has inquired about the Schilke B-series? Again, born and raised in San Francisco. I have no stake in defending Chicago.


I did not disparage Chicago, I said I certainly would not recommend there for being able to compare a lot of horns. There is no Dillon, or Brass Instrument Workshop, or J Landress Brass equivalent there. Those are places I would point someone to. Now just for Schilke only, absolutely, if you read my posts I have already said that I have taken advantage of the skilled and helpful staff at Schilke more than once, and recommend them within that scope - but that was not the topic you quote me with regard to.



This certainly has come a long way from my original response that, between a B1 and a B6 in a jazz live performance function, those I know who are successful at it, and play Schilke, prefer the B6. You don't agree with them, or have different experience, great! It's just what I have observed.
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Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com

2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20
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adagiotrumpet
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Joined: 31 May 2006
Posts: 716

PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OldSchoolEuph wrote:
adagiotrumpet wrote:

There is much here that I have to disagree with.

"...Schilke B-series instruments are not easy to play." Nonsense. I have been playing Schilke B-series trumpets for the better part of 50 years, starting in high school with a B1. I bought it because of how easy it was to play. I also play other brands on a regular basis, so rest assured I am not shilling for Schilke.


I keep saying that for those strong enough and skilled enough, they are an unequalled tool. But for those not up to the challenge, they can get away from you. There is also a truth that what is easy for one person may be hard for another and vice-versa - taking us back to the original point that we all have different preferences for centering, resistance, response, etc. But, I stand by the statement that a Schilke B can be much harder for someone less skilled to control than a horn that offers the player less flexibility.

Ponder this: If the B series was the perfect horn for everyone, then why would Schilke have launched the much more solidly centering S series? Could it be that they recognize people are different and want to offer top-notch instruments for more than just one segment of the market?

For that matter: Trumpet is not easy to play (well).

adagiotrumpet wrote:
"...not the same as saying a B1 is a modern orchestral trumpet like a 229C." Well, none of the Bach Bb's are like a 229C either.


I was accused of saying a B1 is a modern orchestral trumpet. It is not. I did not. Stop trying to paint the situation otherwise.

adagiotrumpet wrote:
"...if I had suggested flying, it would not be there "(Chicago). Why disparage Chicago when the OP has inquired about the Schilke B-series? Again, born and raised in San Francisco. I have no stake in defending Chicago.


I did not disparage Chicago, I said I certainly would not recommend there for being able to compare a lot of horns. There is no Dillon, or Brass Instrument Workshop, or J Landress Brass equivalent there. Those are places I would point someone to. Now just for Schilke only, absolutely, if you read my posts I have already said that I have taken advantage of the skilled and helpful staff at Schilke more than once, and recommend them within that scope - but that was not the topic you quote me with regard to.



This certainly has come a long way from my original response that, between a B1 and a B6 in a jazz live performance function, those I know who are successful at it, and play Schilke, prefer the B6. You don't agree with them, or have different experience, great! It's just what I have observed.


First of all, the OP inquired about B series Schilkes. I am not aware of any store in the country that even comes close to having the entire line of B series Schikes available for play testing other than the Schilke factory, which, at least every time I was there, had them all. And where is Schlke located? CHICAGO! (technically, just out side of the city).

As a long time Schilke owner and player, I still am having a hard time with the notion that Schilkes are harder to control by the less skilled. Of all my horns, the Schilkes are some of the easiest to control and always have been.

Regarding Schilkes supposedly having loose centers, if Old School Euph thinks Schilkes have loose slots, than he should be able to play a chromatic scale on a Martin Committee without using any valves. Now that's a horn with loose slots. It's part of its charm.

As far a the S series Schilkes are concerned, I believe they were developed to produce more of a Bach-like sound and feel.

Admittedly, Old School Euph has mentioned that his experience with Schilkes has been limited and he owns a B2. Rather than critique an entire line of trumpets as being difficult to control and having loose centers, perhaps his observations pertain to his personal horn and not an entire manufacturer.

What seems to be missing in his description of Schilkes is their unparallelled quality of workmanship, impeccable intonation, and unbelievable consistency. My 1957 horn, described as a B1 prototype, is remarkably similar to my son's early 2000's B1. While the horns are not identical, it is quite obvious that they share the same DNA. And the workmanship and intonation on both is clearly Schilke.

How exceptional quality of construction, superior intonation, and incredible consistency could be a detriment to the unskilled player escapes me.
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OldSchoolEuph
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

adagiotrumpet wrote:
What seems to be missing in his description of Schilkes is their unparallelled quality of workmanship, impeccable intonation, and unbelievable consistency. My 1957 horn, described as a B1 prototype, is remarkably similar to my son's early 2000's B1. While the horns are not identical, it is quite obvious that they share the same DNA. And the workmanship and intonation on both is clearly Schilke.

How exceptional quality of construction, superior intonation, and incredible consistency could be a detriment to the unskilled player escapes me.


How is that missing. Look at what I have said. Your false attribution of opinion borders on defamation and I am not going to stand for it.

I play on Schilke mouthpieces as Byron did. Their horns are among the best made, and their people are real players who generously give of their own time and expertise to help others - not just as a sales pitch. How dare you suggest I do not respect, admire, and recommend Schilke.

What you are overlooking is that in the B series, that impeccable intonation relies on the player asking the horn for it. It is easier for folks like you to play because it does as you ask effortlessly. Other horns do not, but also don't drift off pitch as easy if what you ask is not what you should.

By the way, I have a Schilke and 2 Bach belled horns that I can indeed play a chromatic scale on without valves (thinking about it now, there are several more arrows in the quiver I can say the same about). The issue is that when a player is not able to consistently set right, a horn like that plays a Bb when they intended a B.

At the end of the day, the equipment indeed makes it easier or harder, but ultimately it is the player, not the horn.
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Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com

2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20
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