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Late 30s Comebacker


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bmmont07
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Joined: 14 Feb 2021
Posts: 10
Location: Central PA

PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:16 am    Post subject: Late 30s Comebacker Reply with quote

Hi everyone, have been lurking for a while but decided to join the community after a long hiatus!

Was pretty serious about trumpet from late high school into college; I started out as a Music Ed major, then quickly realized that wasn't for me. Kept a music minor and stayed in the trumpet studio for all 4 years.

Had a great teacher, played in the brass quintet, college orchestra, church gigs, marching band. I even did a half-recital my senior year. Met my wife marching the Reading Buccaneers DCA corps (1st trumpet) in 2006.

Then marriage and life happened, my horns collected dust for years. I kept all my music, oiled the valves periodically, but didn't start playing again until Covid hit last March.

I'm definitely finding that some things have come back to me pretty quickly... found my sound again pretty fast. But endurance and range seem to be the 2 things I've lost. I guess it's all those cumulative years of playing from 4th grade until I was 22 years old.

I was never an extreme lead-type of player, but had a pretty solid E above high C, and with my time marching a drum corps I could play for hours.

My interests definitely lie on the classical side of things overall, and I'm slowly figuring out what is and isn't working in my routine coming back.

Almost feel like I'm my own worst enemy at times--my motivation and interest is there, but I need to restrain myself from overdoing it and killing my chops every day.

Realized I don't have the embouchure strength/air support anymore for my awesome Curry 3BC on my Bb horn (a 180-72LR) that sounded so great all through my college years. It sounds great on my old Yamaha C, but too diffuse/airy on the Bb according to my wife. Using my trusty Curry 3C. for the time being. She said I sound focused on the 3C. with clear articulation, but "thin." Mark Curry is making me a 3C. top with a 1 1/2C bottom--blind testing with my wife, I have the richest/fullest tone with a solid core on a curry 1 1/2C but I find the rim to be uncomfortable.

Looking forward to learning from all of you; any tips or words of encouragement are welcome! Been loving my trusty ol' Stamp book, practicing soft clarke, Paudert etudes and bits and pieces of Arban, concone and Melodious Etudes.

Brian
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Dayton
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Joined: 24 Mar 2013
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Location: USA

PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome back to trumpet playing! Have fun!
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Croquethed
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Joined: 19 Dec 2013
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Location: Oakville, CT

PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, back just in time for Mardi Gras! Play Saints and just revel in it!

You're so far ahead of most comebackers I don't know where to start other than to reiterate that the endurance and range thing takes time, and you should get back fairly quickly.

I'm happy as he** the days I hit a nice solid E. Every time I get discouraged I remember that trumpet is an extremely physical instrument to play and that just as 300-lb guards aren't asked to run fly patterns at 4.4/40 speed, some of us aren't screamers.

So maximize. Maximize your skill set, your time and your enjoyment. You're 95% of the way there.
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Dkjcliff
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Joined: 12 Apr 2020
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm in a similar situation. I was a serious high school trumpeter and a college performance major for a year after which life took me in a different direction. Had one previous comeback before the pandemic that didn't last long. Now I'm using some of the extra time I have every day not having to commute to practice. I've learned that you can make a lot of progress in 30-60 mins every day with smart practice. I'm very happy with what I've accomplished in the last year. I can say confidently that I am now a better player than I ever was.

It doesn't sound like you need much advice in terms of resources and technical exercises. One of the main things I wish I had appreciated earlier in my comeback was how much I was abusing my chops. As a younger player, I relied WAY too much on pressure. So I knew that in my comeback I needed to focus on solving that problem. But I was so accustomed to playing with pressure and experiencing significant swelling in my chops, I perceived what turned out to be only a minor improvement as me having basically solved the problem. Only in the last few weeks am I realizing how much pressure I am still using, that I still need to develop my embouchure strength, and how much my poor form had held me back from continuing to improve as a player. The nice thing about being stuck at home playing is I don't have the external pressure to play longer and harder than I should to keep up with a group.

I wish that I had appreciated the advice to take it slow in the beginning of your comeback, to rest as long as you play, and to be cognizant of when your embouchure is falling apart because you're overly tired. I'm finally getting to a point where I can play through full pieces that I like to play without losing my form. Because I had such awful form as a younger player, I didn't even understand the difference until recently.

So my only advice based on what you've described is to really be sensitive to finding your correct form that allows you to play with that ideal combination of ease and sound, and doesn't seem to be physically damaging your chops. Then be patient. If you can only play that way for a few seconds at a time, take frequent breaks. Rest assured that as you continue to play the right way for you, your endurance will increase and likely your range will as well.

My other advice is that it can be really useful to read everyone's opinions and personal experiences here and use them as guide to experimenting in an effort to find your best form. But also bear in mind that everyone is different physically and has different priorities. So what may be the cure all for someone else may not work for you at all. I've learned a ton from reading all the different opinions on trumpet playing on this forum, but there have been plenty of things I've tried for a week or two and then dropped because I could tell it wasn't going to work for me.
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bmmont07
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Joined: 14 Feb 2021
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Location: Central PA

PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the kind words! Yes I am definitely finding that I am almost certainly going overboard and not letting my chops recover enough day to day, despite being diligent about always leaving time for a warmdown, and warming up carefully the next day.

I’m making a concerted effort to focus on quality “reps” of something versus quantity going forward. And that less is often more, at this stage..counterproductive to push TO or past fatigue.

I’m doing a lot of reading and research on different approaches and ideas and experimenting with them to see what resonates and what doesn’t. since I have the time other than my day job!

Currently working on the idea of removing excess unneeded tension from my embouchure so I can get more resonance below the staff and then apply that to the rest of my playing.
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Brian
Bb...Yamaha Xeno 8335IIS…Curry 3C.-1.5C cup
C...Yamaha 6445HSII…Curry 3BC
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sdr93trp
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Joined: 29 Mar 2021
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm in a similar situation. Played throughout high school and took college lessons for 3 years from a couple professors that probably most around here would recognize. I ended up getting a business degree but decided pick up the horn again recently because between covid and my career life being in shambles I had nothing better to do.

I find Pops New Arban to be pure gold for my playing. It's free and I just started playing an exercise from each section every day and I can literally hear myself improving every single day. I do the Stamp warm ups beforehand and just doing those two things is enough. Make sure you do the breath attacks and "Lip Setpoint" drills daily as those seem to be having the greatest effect on keeping my chops focused and consistent through all registers.
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JH3136
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Joined: 14 Dec 2020
Posts: 18
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sdr93trp wrote:
I'm in a similar situation. Played throughout high school and took college lessons for 3 years from a couple professors that probably most around here would recognize. I ended up getting a business degree but decided pick up the horn again recently because between covid and my career life being in shambles I had nothing better to do.

I find Pops New Arban to be pure gold for my playing. It's free and I just started playing an exercise from each section every day and I can literally hear myself improving every single day. I do the Stamp warm ups beforehand and just doing those two things is enough. Make sure you do the breath attacks and "Lip Setpoint" drills daily as those seem to be having the greatest effect on keeping my chops focused and consistent through all registers.


+1 on the advice here. I will add the Stamp bending exercises will help you find and keep your pitch center which helps with relaxation and accuracy. Welcome back!!!
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GeorgeB
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Joined: 20 Apr 2016
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 3:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, Brian.You have a good foundation so your comeback should go well. I played 12 years before taking a 50+ year break and coming back in 2016 at the age of 79. By the fall of my first year back I was playing first chair with a local community band. Endurance and range were the sticklers for me.

Good luck.
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GeorgeB
1960s King Super 20 Silversonic
2016 Manchester Brass Custom
1938-39 Olds Recording
1942 Buescher 400 Bb trumpet
1952 Selmer Paris 21 B
1999 Conn Vintage One B flat trumpet
2020 Getzen 490 Bb
1962 Conn Victor 5A cornet
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bmmont07
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Joined: 14 Feb 2021
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Location: Central PA

PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 1:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quick update, I received the 3C/1.5C combo about a month ago. First reaction from my wife was “YES!” when she heard me playing it. Been playing on it exclusively and although I don’t subscribe to the idea that a mouthpiece will fix everything, it’s definitely made a dramatic impact on my ability to achieve the sound I heard in my head. So I put it in the category of having the right setup to support my fundamentals.

It’s also been eye opening how much matching the mpc to the horn can impact things. The new mouthpiece felt ok in my C trumpet but according to my wife out front, sounded terrible, thin and airy. Popped the 3BC in it (which doesn’t sound good on my Bb) and boom, full clear sound in front of the bell.

Have been alternating lighter and heavier days, trying to balance fundamentals with playing actual music and feeling my overall endurance creep up.
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Bb...Yamaha Xeno 8335IIS…Curry 3C.-1.5C cup
C...Yamaha 6445HSII…Curry 3BC
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Michael Coon
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Joined: 11 Apr 2021
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Location: Concord, NC

PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:33 pm    Post subject: Comeback Player Reply with quote

I’m glad I joined the herald and read your posts. After 45 years I started again in December 2020. Started too aggressive. I’ve been have trouble double buzzing lately. I have to relearn my embouchure for same reasons. Any and all advice I would be grateful. I feel like a lm having to relearn everything how long should I start my practice sessions? How can I increase my lip endurance? What’s a good book to start all over again after 45 years? I truly want yo play and with the correct embochure and all,

Thanks Michael
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Dayton
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Joined: 24 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I’ve been have trouble double buzzing lately. I have to relearn my embouchure for same reasons.


Welcome back to trumpet playing! The best thing you can do is to start working with a teacher. That probably means online lessons for now, but that's much better than no lessons. Your teacher can help you figure out what to practice and how to practice it to meet your goals. He/she can also help you sort out embouchure issues, and the double buzz, which could well be related to fatigue.

The next best thing you can do is to shorten your practice sessions. Stop before you feel fatigued. If you have a hard time figuring out when, try shortening your practice to sets of just 10 minutes each -- perhaps three per day. Then add one minute to each session per week.

As for books, your teacher will have some recommendations. Until you are able to take lessons, Harold "Pappy" Mitchell's "Mitchell on Trumpet" or Claude Gordon's "Physical Approach to Elementary Brass Playing" is a good starting point.

Good luck!
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JayKosta
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Joined: 24 Dec 2018
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Location: Endwell NY USA

PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:16 am    Post subject: Re: Comeback Player Reply with quote

Michael Coon wrote:
... I have to relearn my embouchure for same reasons. ...

-----------------------------------------------------
For general info about embouchure, you can see my thoughts here -
http://users.hancock.net/jkosta/Embouchure_Basic_Concepts.htm

It is not meant to be a 'teaching guide', but a review of embouchure functions.
If your technique is much different, then you might want to determine why (different doesn't mean there's a problem, but something to at least think about).

And yes, finding a good teacher who can give advice and guidance can be a big help.
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Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.
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Michael Coon
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Joined: 11 Apr 2021
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Location: Concord, NC

PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:39 pm    Post subject: Thank you all for your replies. I am sincerely grateful. Reply with quote

Dayton wrote:
Quote:
I’ve been have trouble double buzzing lately. I have to relearn my embouchure for same reasons.


Welcome back to trumpet playing! The best thing you can do is to start working with a teacher. That probably means online lessons for now, but that's much better than no lessons. Your teacher can help you figure out what to practice and how to practice it to meet your goals. He/she can also help you sort out embouchure issues, and the double buzz, which could well be related to fatigue.

The next best thing you can do is to shorten your practice sessions. Stop before you feel fatigued. If you have a hard time figuring out when, try shortening your practice to sets of just 10 minutes each -- perhaps three per day. Then add one minute to each session per week.

As for books, your teacher will have some recommendations. Until you are able to take lessons, Harold "Pappy" Mitchell's "Mitchell on Trumpet" or Claude Gordon's "Physical Approach to Elementary Brass Playing" is a good starting point.

Good luck!

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Michael C. Coon
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Michael Coon
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Joined: 11 Apr 2021
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Location: Concord, NC

PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="GeorgeB"]Hi, Brian.You have a good foundation so your comeback should go well. I played 12 years before taking a 50+ year break and coming back in 2016 at the age of 79. By the fall of my first year back I was playing first chair with a local community band. Endurance and range were the sticklers for me.

Good luck.[/quote

Hi GeorgeB!

Inspiring story! I’m 62 trying to comeback after 45 years. What do you recommend did you take lessons how many minutes did you start what were your keys to success? Thx Michael
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Michael C. Coon
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Michael Coon
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Location: Concord, NC

PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Thank you all for your replies. I am sincerely grateful. Reply with quote

Michael Coon wrote:
Dayton wrote:
Quote:
I’ve been have trouble double buzzing lately. I have to relearn my embouchure for same reasons.


Welcome back to trumpet playing! The best thing you can do is to start working with a teacher. That probably means online lessons for now, but that's much better than no lessons. Your teacher can help you figure out what to practice and how to practice it to meet your goals. He/she can also help you sort out embouchure issues, and the double buzz, which could well be related to fatigue.

The next best thing you can do is to shorten your practice sessions. Stop before you feel fatigued. If you have a hard time figuring out when, try shortening your practice to sets of just 10 minutes each -- perhaps three per day. Then add one minute to each session per week.

THANK YOU DAYTON I GREATLY APPRECIATE YOUR ADVICE!!! Michael

As for books, your teacher will have some recommendations. Until you are able to take lessons, Harold "Pappy" Mitchell's "Mitchell on Trumpet" or Claude Gordon's "Physical Approach to Elementary Brass Playing" is a good starting point.

Good luck!

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Michael C. Coon
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Michael Coon
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Joined: 11 Apr 2021
Posts: 10
Location: Concord, NC

PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Comeback Player Reply with quote

JayKosta wrote:
Michael Coon wrote:
... I have to relearn my embouchure for same reasons. ...

-----------------------------------------------------
For general info about embouchure, you can see my thoughts here -
http://users.hancock.net/jkosta/Embouchure_Basic_Concepts.htm

It is not meant to be a 'teaching guide', but a review of embouchure functions.
If your technique is much different, then you might want to determine why (different doesn't mean there's a problem, but something to at least think about).

And yes, finding a good teacher who can give advice and guidance can be a big help.


THANK YOU JAY! I read your articles and will reach out for lessons. If I’ve been over doing my practice could I have damaged my embouchure? Should I take a few days off and come back slower?
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JayKosta
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Joined: 24 Dec 2018
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Location: Endwell NY USA

PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:27 am    Post subject: Re: Comeback Player Reply with quote

Michael Coon wrote:
... If I’ve been over doing my practice could I have damaged my embouchure? Should I take a few days off and come back slower?

--------------------------
If there is actual injury, then yes take time off for healing.
I think that there should be no pain when practicing - muscle tiredness and a little discomfort is when to stop and rest a bit.

In athletic training, the exercise portion is done to cause some 'distress' to the muscles - the actual strengthening happens during the rest period when the muscle grows to be able to accommodate the earlier distress level.
You cannot injure yourself into better shape.
_________________
Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.
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GeorgeB
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Joined: 20 Apr 2016
Posts: 1063
Location: New Glasgow, Nova Scotia

PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Michael Coon wrote:
Hi GeorgeB!

Inspiring story! I’m 62 trying to comeback after 45 years. What do you recommend did you take lessons how many minutes did you start what were your keys to success? Thx Michael


I went back to the text book I used as a student. It was a trumpet/cornet tutorial by Everett James ( Harrys father ). I started back at the beginning and went straight through to the end. It all came back to me fairly quickly. The biggest problem I had was with finding the correct mouthpiece. I had used a Bach 10.5C during my teens and twenties. But at 79 that mp didn't work any more. One of the pro players in the community band I was playing with took me to a store where I could try different mouthpieces and I found the 5C worked best. But the Bach 5C had a sharp inside rim and after a few injuries I moved up to a Bach 3C. These days I am using an ACB3CS/ and or an ACB5CS.
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GeorgeB
1960s King Super 20 Silversonic
2016 Manchester Brass Custom
1938-39 Olds Recording
1942 Buescher 400 Bb trumpet
1952 Selmer Paris 21 B
1999 Conn Vintage One B flat trumpet
2020 Getzen 490 Bb
1962 Conn Victor 5A cornet
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plp
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Joined: 11 Feb 2003
Posts: 7023
Location: South Alabama

PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really old timer here. Look at my post count.
A little backstory, came to TH as a collector, seeking knowledge on vintage Conn trumpets. Found it, thank you Mark Metzler and Paul Ayick.
Transitioned to player from collector, and have sold off most of my stuff, have a few dozen collectibles I'm hanging on to, until their value ripens to the point I will sell them.
Those are in vacuum sealed bags in my closet or gun safe, depending on value and how much room I have, with silicon pouches to preserve them.
I have 3 player horns, and 3 mouthpieces, that I have played exclusively for 6-10 years, my main trumpet and mouthpiece has not changed in 10 years.
For the most part, take whatever path you want, BTDT, mouthpiece safari, horn safari, been down the rabbit hole.
And nothing wrong with that, if you have the resources to make it happen, was a wild ride and don't regret a second of it.
However, will say, one of my gigging horns is a Bach TR 500, student trumpet I paid 35 bucks for, and serves my needs just fine, provides that blend to the section in tune and tone. In time is up to me, but the horn does it's job just fine, better than several 2k trumpets I've bought and sold over the years. My Holy Grail at one time was a VII Raptor, worst fit for me ever, sold it at a loss. Same with a Getzen Eterna, great solo horn, but couldn't blend in a section for beans. Forget name, and brand, go with what plays well for you and matches with the group you play in.
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Since all other motivesfame, money, power, even honorare thrown out the window the moment I pick up that instrument..... I play because I love doing it, even when the results are disappointing. In short, I do it to do it. Wayne Booth
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royjohn
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Joined: 12 Jan 2005
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Location: Knoxville, Tennessee

PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Brian,
I'm a 73 y/o comebacker from HS player, on and off since about age 56. As others have said, you sound very proficient, sensible and knowledgeable in what you're doing on the comeback. I would add a few points.

Rest as much as you play applies to between sessions and to within sessions. Rest a minute or two after each few minutes of playing. Stop while still fresh. You might want to do some lip buzzing...if you can't lip buzz it, you aren't playing it right. I also would recommend doing the pencil exercise before bed each night, when you are somewhat fresh after your last playing session.

Pops McLaughlin has a short book on how to progress in 30 minutes a day of practice that might be of interest to you.

I would also recommend a session or two of consultation with a chop doc to make sure your embouchure is right. I did about eight hours over about four sessions with Dave Wilken (Wilktone.com) several years ago and it made all the difference in getting my embouchure where it should be (which it wasn't, at all).

Have fun with your comeback!
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royjohn
Trumpets: 1928 Holton Llewellyn Model, 1957 Holton 51LB, 2010 Custom C by Bill Jones, 2011 Custom D/Eb by Bill Jones
Flugels: 1975 Olds Superstar, 1970's Elkhardt, 1970's Getzen 4 valve
Cornet: 1970's Yamaha YCR-233S . . . and others . . .
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