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Thompson's Buzzing Book and Caruso



 
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gms979
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 1:27 pm    Post subject: Thompson's Buzzing Book and Caruso Reply with quote

Greetings,

I just began working out of the Buzzing Book today, and did the first four exercises while following the instructions. Just a few observations/questiosn...

I did my normal routine afterwards, and felt a MARKED improvement in response, resonance, tone quality, etc. I have never worked much on buzzing exercises before, but have been thinking about incorporating his book for a while.

Also, some of the principles remind me of the Caruso studies, which I have successfully incorporated into my playing for about a year now. There are some differences obviously, but the key similarity that strikes me the most is Thompson's stress on long setting/breathing through the nose. Can Caruso's four rules be successfully applied to the Thompson book, kind of killing two birds with one stone? In some ways I guess not, because the Thompson book is meant to be played with an accompanying CD that clearly outlines rhythm and harmonies...plus he stresses tone, sound, musical product and the like. Though there do seem to be enough similarities to make me curious if Thompson was influenced by Caruso.

I'd be fascinated if there are people out there who find a way to incorporate both methods into their routine...I'd like to find a way to utilize both methods without being redundant in my practicing.

Any additional tips/insight by all you out there more knowledgable than me would be appreciated - thanks!

Greg
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hotorangetrumpet
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The book is great. I am in Rochester and study at Eastman, so I have met thompson and such.... hes A HUGE BUZZER and the book is great.
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TWEAK
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the thompson book is influenced by caruso, and, it was thompson himself who first mentioned caruso to me.
i met him in the summer of '04 and it was at his 2 day class at eastman. we all got copies of his book and his classes were 8 hours long for 2 days. it was incredible, the amount of information he gave us. but back then i wasnt knowledgable about really anything, trumpetwise. i had been playing for about 14 years and i was not gettting anywhere, really. the teachers at my old school didnt teach me anything about the proper way of playing the horn at all. so i was basically forming bad habits all the time and i never knew how to solve them.
after his class was over, i went home and tried the book. but my bad habits still tried to overpower me, and i couldnt play his book. i started getting paranoid and thought my trumpet playing was over. it was nothing that his book had done; it was all me and what i tried to manipulate in my playing. thompson talked a lot about just letting things happen when we play and i didnt get it at all...i used to think to play high, you had to shift your jaw up and to play lower that your jaw went down more. and that the corners of the lips must accomidate high and low playing by moving them around. i tried every way i coud to overpower the buzzing book and i kept failing. i wasnt trying to do this, but thats what happened.
3 months later i remembered he mentioned caruso. i checked out the forum and bought mcfb. with the help and advice of the caruso students here (like ph, charly, and a few others) i was able to learn to play correctly as opposed to me just forcing everything.
may '05 came around and i tried the bizzing book again...and with success.
june '05 came around and i found myself in thompson's 2 day class at eastman again. i told him of the success i had and he said that his book is like cruso studies in many ways, mixed in with a few other things. he said his book could be viewed as "pre-caruso", if a student wanted to do caruso stuff. but it wasnt that way for me anyways, but everyone's different.

if you would like to view my paranoia on this subject, check out the post on the fundamentals forum and see just what exactly i was going thru. people could learn a lot from my mistakes. its 4 pages long, and its mostly of me whining.

http://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22216&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
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dedalus78
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use the buzzing book daily, and have done for a few years now. I apply the Caruso ideas of syncronization and timing when I play them, that is I tap my foot and I very deliberately subdivide. Don't let the buzzing CD lead you to playing the buzzing book on auto-pilot! I don't ever actually use the cd, as I just find the synth sound quite naff. Play the notes on a piano, tap you foot, and perform the thompson exercises very deliberately (like the Caruso), not necessarily getting musical results (like the caruso) but definately, with time and application, improving and refining your sound and production on the trumpet (like the caruso).
good luck!
TW
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gennaro
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What do you believe is the real plus-value of a buzzing routine for people already doing the complete Caruso routine as in "getting Started"?
And between Stamp and Thompon what do you advice as the better?
thanks for replies
Gennaro
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matzentrpt
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are quite a bit of similarities between the two methods (Stamp and Thompson). The best way to go about would be to pick one and start sheddin, preferably with a teacher who has experienced success with either method. I have been working with Thompson for amost 2 years now on his book and his concepts, and my playing has improved quite drastically.

I always thought of the buzzing book as a combination of Stamp, Caruso and Schlossberg. In fact, the first 9 exercises in the BB are from the Schlossberg book, if I am not mistaken.

Happy practicing.
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dedalus78
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Benefits of Buzzing practice are:
a) as the mouthpiece offers less resistance the player becomes accustomed to using more air, allowing the lips to vibrate more freely, improving the sound quality.
b) when buzzing, the player is able to hear more easily what is happening between the notes, and more easily ensure the airstream is full and constant.
c) the player is taught to rely more on the ear to place pitches.
d) when alternating between buzzing and playing, the player can ensure the pitch being buzzed is the same as the note played, not higher as is often the case with trumpet players.
e) when buzzing, the mechanics of sound production become more apparent, and can be worked on more easily.

I'm sure there are some other benefits i've missed. I accept there are maybe some players for whom buzzing would offer little or no benefit, however I've never heard one of these. Essentially mouthpiece buzzing makes any flaws in the production very obvious and allows them to be worked on. And Jim Thompson's book is, in my opinion, the most intelligent, comprehensive, buzzing routine for ironing out playing flaws, and maintaining good habits.
In respose to the question on the relative importance of the Caruso or Thompson method, I would say that Caruso is going to be of more benefit once the player has grasped the concepts of Thompson. Of course this does not neccessarily mean a player MUST have worked through Thompson, but the principles of playing with good air-lip balance and resonance should have been reached before embarking on the Caruso Method.
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dedalus78
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah! I see the question asked was between Stamp and Thompson, not CC and Thomson. I would say check them both out, and see what they do for you. Thompson is perhaps a little more self explanatory than Stamp, coming with the CD and all. They both are going to improve your playing, but stamp perhaps takes a little more explanation and coaching to get the full benefits. Thompson are more in the 'Calisthenic' vein of CC, so if you are familiar with CC then I would lean towards Thompson.
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camelbrass
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 2:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sorry, but I don't get the relevance between buzzing and 'Musical Calesthethinics for Brass'. Please, I'm not criticing Mr Thompson's approach....he's a fine player with a great sound.

Or is it just me?


Regards,


Trevor
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PH
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

camelbrass wrote:
I'm sorry, but I don't get the relevance between buzzing and 'Musical Calesthethinics for Brass'. Please, I'm not criticing Mr Thompson's approach....he's a fine player with a great sound.

Or is it just me?


Regards,


Trevor


No. I don't get the relevance either. In 3-4 years of regular lessons with Carmine he only had me do buzzing for 2 or 3 weeks, and those three weeks were particularly rough ones where I was having some major response problems. Buzzing was remedial only in my experience. It just didn't seem to be that big a part of his teaching. He doesn't even mention it in MCFB.
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matzentrpt
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe the original poster was curious about the first exercise in BB? I think thats straight from the Caruse book, only on the MP. I could be wrong.
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Last edited by matzentrpt on Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:35 am; edited 1 time in total
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PH
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

matzentrpt wrote:
Have you guys read Thompsons book? The title is "The Buzzing Book," but don't be mislead, thats not the only thing happening.


No, honestly I haven't. The title is a turn-off, since buzzing is something that in my experience causes more problems than it cures for most people.
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rudas1
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This IS a Caruso forum, so I guess I dont think its appropriate to focus the discussion on another method.... however, a comparison between methods can be interesting, and I think helpful. The great thing about CC is that it is a supplement to any other kind of practice you want/need to do. The Thompson buzzing book is greatly influenced by Caruso, but goes off in quite another direction.

It has been my experience that the methods work very well together, and that benefits can be gained by practicing CC along with the Thompson buzzing. Ultimately you have to find what works best for you. You will find accomplished professionals who swear by buzzing as a great practice tool, and those who go as far to say that it is detrimental. Well... I think Thompson's playing (and many other players who are buzzing advocates) speaks for itself!

Todd
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dedalus78
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think anyone can master this damn instrument by working with one method only. The CC method is excellent, and addresses some playing issues that aren't dealt with specifically, elsewhere. Likewise J. Thompson's book. The skills addressed by either book can of course be learnt elsewhere (plenty of great players pre- caruso or thompson!), but the specific focus in CC on syncronization and co-ordination will help you a hell of a lot if you haven't picked this up playing Arban and Schlossberg!
The area of focus in the Thompson routine is the production of a resonant sound. It deals with this aspect of playing in a detailed and systematic manner that will help you if you haven't attained these skills playing Arban or Schlossberg, or CC for that matter! Working with the mouthpiece alone allows you to check things are working correctly, and improve upon them. Perhaps as a teacher, CC was able to determine the players efficiency and lip-air balance without working on the mouthpiece, but for most players (who haven't had the benefit of studying directly with CC) I don't believe this is the case.
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gms979
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the insight, guys....

I didn't want to hijack the Caruso forum with something off-topic, but couldn't help but noticing the similarities between Thompson's instructions and some of the four rules of Caruso (namely with Thompson specifically stating to breathe only through the nose as well as to keep the mouthpiece on for the duration of the study). I was definitely curious to see if Thompson had been a Caruso student at some point, and finding out that he was didn't really surprise me!

Thanks again for the help.

Best Wishes,
Greg
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Satchel
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_LsUfQXctk
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kevin_soda
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Satchel wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_LsUfQXctk


Is this you in the "video?"
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TrpPro
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A couple of observations.

I never knew CC to assign the Six Notes as a buzzing exercise. I guess there wouldn't be any reason not to. However, Carmine would always have a student follow a buzzing exercise with playing the same thing on the horn. Playing on the horn was part of the complete exercise so he wouldn't just assign the buzzing by itself.

Also, CC preferred that the student NOT use a metronome. If they were a beginner he made the exception to use a metronome until the student got a sense of time. Then the metronome would be discontinued and the student would use foot tapping as outlined in the Four Rules.
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PH
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TrpPro wrote:
A couple of observations.

I never knew CC to assign the Six Notes as a buzzing exercise. I guess there wouldn't be any reason not to. However, Carmine would always have a student follow a buzzing exercise with playing the same thing on the horn. Playing on the horn was part of the complete exercise so he wouldn't just assign the buzzing by itself.

Also, CC preferred that the student NOT use a metronome. If they were a beginner he made the exception to use a metronome until the student got a sense of time. Then the metronome would be discontinued and the student would use foot tapping as outlined in the Four Rules.


This post is spot on. I never knew Carmine to assign the six notes or interval studies on the mouthpiece. He always said tap the foot and subdivide (no metronome) so the timing is controlled internally.
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