• FAQ  • Search  • Memberlist  • Usergroups   • Register   • Profile  • Log in to check your private messages  • Log in 

Should we use our cellphones to record our playing


Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Fundamentals
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Robert P
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 28 Feb 2013
Posts: 1875

PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bflatman wrote:
Robert

The discussion is about my refusal to use a cellphone at the cost of 0 dollars to record my practice.

I don't know what your cell phone sounds like, you don't want to provide an example. My Motorola G7 cell phone can make recordings that sound really good.

Quote:
I do not need a ferrari to get to the shops but there are members in here who are arguing that the choice is between a ferrari or a bicycle.

I personally told you that you can get a cell phone that does an admirable job that IMO is more than adequate. If you want something better than what an iPhone or my Motorola will do you're going to have to step up to dedicated recording gear which also involves far more complication than just setting a single device on a table top and hitting "record". You have to have a pre-amp and if you're using a condenser mic you have to have a pre-amp that provides 48v power to the mic. Then the mic has to be routed to a recording device - computer, tape deck, something.

With a cell phone all the hardware is contained within the phone.

Quote:
It appears that members are trying to force me to use a cellphone for all recordings. I resent being forced to use the cheapest and worst equipment.

I don't see anyone trying to force you to do anything, which is a ludicrous notion.

Quote:
And when I say I want to hear what I sound like I am told I only need a cellphone for that. That is bullsh1t.

You said you want "total reality". How you get that is by listening to yourself with your ears. The term "total reality" sounds self-explanatory. And the reality is it doesn't exist as far as audio recording.

If you want third party observer playback to critique yourself a cell phone that's capable of making decent recordings will show you if you're off pitch, if you're splattering notes, if your articulation isn't as clean as it could be, etc.

Quote:
There are members who report that they ditched their cellphone because the cellphone gave poor recordings and used a separate inexpensive mic and they got an immediate increase in recording quality.

If they ditched a cell phone that wasn't capable of quality audio recording that's probably true.

Quote:
Some members are also saying two things first they say that all microphones record what we sound like but then they go on to say that all microphones record us differently.

This is insanity, holding two opposing views simultaneously or it is being disingenuous.

Either all microphones record what we sound like or they all record us differently.

A problem you're struggling with is a lack of awareness of recording tech.

All microphones will record some aspect of what something sounds like. For example in early film of Louis Armstrong though the sound wasn't at all hi-fidelity they did capture distinctive elements of his sound. There was distortion, a very limited part of the audio spectrum was being captured but nonetheless they conveyed elements of his sound.

Quote:
And when I say I want to hear total reality you take that to mean I want the highest quality as well. Reality and quality are not the same things.

This sounds like a very confused statement.

Quote:
A 100 dollar mic gives reality because it records all the sounds presented to it but at lower quality than a 1000 dollar mic.

Again, you're laboring under a lack of knowledge. The above statement is simply wrong.

Quote:
I dont need a ribbon mic to hear my practice but I sure dont want a 2 dollar toy mic in a cellphone.

A ribbon mic is chosen for particular properties it has. Ribbon mics have a kind of sound and don't capture as wide a part of the audio spectrum as condenser mics tend to. But even within a particular category of mics they're not all the same - for example a Royer R121 doesn't sound exactly like a Coles 4038.

Quote:
I want to hear all my errors and all my mistakes and I want to hear
clearly what I sound like.

The right cell phone will accomplish that.

Quote:
I do not wish to buy a secondhand iPhone for 400 dollars when a 50 dollar mic will do.

Why am I not allowed to use a 50 dollar mic if I choose to.

As outlined above you need more than just the mic.
_________________
Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C

Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo

Chinese Flugel
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bflatman
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 01 Nov 2016
Posts: 720

PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robert we are not fundamentally disagreeing.

And you are of course right that you discover your errors by listening with your ears and that is why I play towards a brick or glass wall.

I did exactly that yesterday and worked on some problems.

It depends on what equipment you have access to I am happy you have satisfactory equipment that works for you I am not happy that my equipment works for me.

There are known problems with the microphone in my equipment so I will not use it.

And no I will not publish a sound recording from it. You will not get your way

I insist that I will use a good mic to record with and I do not care if the members in here demand that I use bad equipment to record with.

It is my recording and I will make it how I wish.

And if any members think that bad equipment should be used to record with then they will get nowhere with me.

It is my affair what microphone I use it is my affair what trumpet I use it is my affair what mouthpiece I use.

I am not telling anyone else what equipment they should use so dont tell me what I should use.

And in particular do not demand that I use worse and cheaper equipment than I wish to use.

I can stand up to this constant badgering but many young beginners who are subjected to this kind of barrage would be upset by it.

Do feel free to carry on and tell me how foolish I am being.

But remember repeatedly telling someone who wants to use good equipment that they are wrong to want good equipment and they should use the cheapest equipment available makes you look foolish.

It is up to you guys will you respect my decision to use better equipment that the cheapest available mic. Or will you try to force me to use the cheapest mic available that you want me to use.

I wont listen anyway because I want to use better quality gear than the cheapest available.
_________________
Conn 80a Cornet
Boosey & Hawkes Emperor Trumpet
Olds Fullerton Special Trumpet
Selmer Invicta Trumpet
Yamaha YCR 2330II Cornet
Selmer Student Trumpet
Bohland and Fuchs peashooter Trumpet
Boosey and Hawkes Regent Cornet
Lark M4045 Cornet
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jaw04
Veteran Member


Joined: 31 Dec 2015
Posts: 416
Location: Oakland, CA

PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bflatman wrote:

But remember repeatedly telling someone who wants to use good equipment that they are wrong to want good equipment and they should use the cheapest equipment available makes you look foolish.
.
Go nuts with your equipment. Get the best. Nobody really cares either way. Who is telling you you're not allowed to get good gear, and why do you care what they think?
_________________
JW - musician and educator
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mm55
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 01 Jul 2013
Posts: 1366

PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bflatman wrote:
... Or will you try to force me to use the cheapest mic available that you want me to use.

Nobody's forcing you to do anything, except maybe some imaginary straw-men of your own invention. How many hundreds of paragraphs will it take to vanquish them to your own satisfaction?
_________________
'75 Bach Strad 180ML/37
'79 King Silver Flair
'07 Flip Oakes Wild Thing
'42 Selmer US
'90 Yamaha YTR6450S(C)
'10 Carol CPT-300LR pkt
'89 Yamaha YCR2330S crnt
'89 Rudy Muck Conductor crnt
'13 CarolBrass CFL-6200-GSS-BG flg
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bflatman
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 01 Nov 2016
Posts: 720

PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am glad to see the sensible members are in the house.
_________________
Conn 80a Cornet
Boosey & Hawkes Emperor Trumpet
Olds Fullerton Special Trumpet
Selmer Invicta Trumpet
Yamaha YCR 2330II Cornet
Selmer Student Trumpet
Bohland and Fuchs peashooter Trumpet
Boosey and Hawkes Regent Cornet
Lark M4045 Cornet
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Robert P
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 28 Feb 2013
Posts: 1875

PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bflatman wrote:
Robert we are not fundamentally disagreeing.

You've gone far afield from your original question and gone down some odd tangents.

Should we use cellphones to record our playing.

If they fill the purpose of recording you *good enough* to hear flaws in your playing - sure you can.

Except then you wander off to:

In my opinion no, not in a million years. I do not believe they are fit for that purpose.

I asked what specifically it is you're looking for with this thread. Was your sole purpose for asking your original question to act as a springboard to assert an opinion about a topic you clearly know nothing about, have no hands-on experience with outside of testing your one cell phone?

And no I will not publish a sound recording from it. You will not get your way

Lol. Whatever. The original intention was to help you. If you want to make it impossible to assess what you've got to compare to what's out there that's on you.

Have fun.
_________________
Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C

Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo

Chinese Flugel
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bflatman
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 01 Nov 2016
Posts: 720

PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 3:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The original question was should we use cellphones to record ourselves and the consensus of te members was that some cellphones can be made to give good quality recordings but many cannot

iPhones can be made to produce good recordings but they do not natively deliver good recordings without care in use

Android devices were condemned by members as giving very poor recordings.

This tallies with my experience having used android and never had a good recording and being recorded on android many times by others and never hearing a good recording and yet being told I sound good in the flesh.

I then said that the conclusion is that iPhones can be used but using a better mic is the way to go to get better reecordings.

That seemed to be a workable solution rather than just ignoring the members anecdotes and knowledge and using cellphones that are questionable at best and downright bad at worst.

We do not know exactly if the cellphone a member happens to possess will guarantee a good recording for them even if used with care so the conclusion must be do not take the risk use a microphone built for the purpose it will only cost around 30 bucks to guarantee a better result.

A cellphone is convenient and costs nothing because you already own it but that alone does not mean you should use it.

Is the purpose here to save money or to get a good recording. For me the purpose is quality not spending zero dollars.

I own a pair of feet and it costs me nothing to use them but that does noot mean I should walk to the mall. Of course I might get a good result walking to the mall with care.

It doesnt cost much to use a bus to get the mall. It doesnt cost much to use a 30 dollar microphone to record.

So why is it so important to some members to persuade musicians to not buy a 30 dollar microphone and use instead a cellphone that costs nothing for making important recordings. And recording praxrice and tone and note formation is important to me.

That would have been an end of it but that was not good enough for some members. They decided to persuade me that using any cellphone is good enough at zero cost, and according to them it is a mistake to spend 30 dollars on a microphone just to try to get a good recording.

So they started demanding to know what I use a microphone for and then went on to say all microphones record the way you sound so it makes no sense to spend money buying a microphone when you already have a cellphone.

I always try to politely answer all questions so I followed the members down the rabbithole to try to show that not all microphones are built the same.

I also said I want to know that I am hearing reality in the recordings because my practice will depend upon what I hear.

I was then told that reality will cost me far too much.

Then I said I reserve the right to buy the equipment I believe to be the best for the job and I was told I was chasing imaginary monsters in my head.

I have tried not to be rude and ignore members posts and answered them and in return have been led down ridiculous avenues and all along I have tried to show that a 2 dollar microphone is not built to the same quality as a 50 or 100 dollar microphone and cannot be expected to perform as well as those devices.

Basically I am hung for listening to members opinions I am hung for having my own opinion I am hung for answering every members posts and I am hung for saying that members are trying to force their opinions on me

It certainly appears they are this thread is a backhanded confdemnation of me syaing that I have gone down odd tangents. I was led there.

And what more odd tangent is there than claiming that the cheapest mic that costs pennies is suitable for making recordings to base opinions of quality upon. That is a ludicrous statement.

That is like saying a 500 dollar automobile is a good automobile to train learner drivers on.

The members of this forum have already spoken, and what they said is, some cellphones can make acceptable recordings but you have to know how to use them or they do not produce good recordings.

Some members have said that a cheap separate mic solves the issues that come with cellphones some have even said it is madness to use cellphones.

So why is this so difficult for some members to accept.

In all equipment there is bad equipment good equipment and excellent equipment. The cheapest is bad the middle is good and the most expensive is great.

According to some members it appears that they believe that where microphones cost between 2 dollars and 20,000 dollars the 2 dollar microphone which is the cheapest in the world, is also a good microphone.

So according to them there is no such thing in existence as a bad microphone.

I do not believe this I believe the cheapest product is not a good product.

I have no doubt I will be condemned for this opinion and for daring to have an opinion of my own and for daring to answer every post in this thread.

I am not seeing monsters everywhere or being paranoid or psychotic.
.
I am answering posts. It wont go on much longer.

All I am seeing now is highly opinionated members with chips on their shoulders looking to pick fights and win battles.

Do not turn this forum int a battleground you know who you are, the ones who have to win arguments at all costs and have a history of contradicting other members and having fights.

I have been answering members posts in as reasonable manner as possible I am now seeing personal attacks lets put an end to this.

We play the finest instrument and we should be spreading happiness and bring people together we should stop fighting and trying to prove how big our dicks are

Trumpet players indulge in pissing contests do not turn trumpetherald into a pissing contest

If a member posts an opinion I believe to be wrong and is a clear contradiction of my position I will answer that wrong opinion. Do not take that as a sign I am looking for a fight

Do not condemn me for answering posts and if a member takes the thread somewhere new and I follow it I do not expect to be condemned for that.

And if in a thread members continually oppose my position with what appears to be illogical arguments such as that a 2 dollar microphone is better for a recording task than a 50 dollar microphone or that the cheapest mic costing pennies is a good mic, then you can expect me to be pretty firm in opposing that uneducated opinion.

Because those kind of opinions are not worthy of this place and are ridiculous.

Now let this thread die with these words.

If you want to record yourself and base your practice and your future abilities upon those recordings and there is only a cellphone to record yourself on but you can afford a cheap separate and better microphone that you know will be a good microphone.

Buy the microphone and make better recordings.

Your future playing ability depends upon the quality of your recordings do not be a scrooge because you might spend 10 or 20 years trying to fix problems that do not exist if you refuse to spend any money on a good mic.
_________________
Conn 80a Cornet
Boosey & Hawkes Emperor Trumpet
Olds Fullerton Special Trumpet
Selmer Invicta Trumpet
Yamaha YCR 2330II Cornet
Selmer Student Trumpet
Bohland and Fuchs peashooter Trumpet
Boosey and Hawkes Regent Cornet
Lark M4045 Cornet
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ebolton
Regular Member


Joined: 03 Feb 2021
Posts: 19
Location: New Hampshire, USA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 5:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This has been amusing, but maybe not 100% relevant from a "fundamentals" perspective. Can I offer the perspective of a truly incompetent, crappy player?

Imagine the quality of player on a 100 point scale. If you are trying to improve from 20% to 40%, use the cellphone to help you judge your sound. That's me.

If you think you are trying to improve from 98% to 100%, you're going to need the good mic, good system, and good room. (and maybe a blindfolded, impartial judge.)
_________________
-Ed
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jaw04
Veteran Member


Joined: 31 Dec 2015
Posts: 416
Location: Oakland, CA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ebolton wrote:
This has been amusing, but maybe not 100% relevant from a "fundamentals" perspective. Can I offer the perspective of a truly incompetent, crappy player?

Imagine the quality of player on a 100 point scale. If you are trying to improve from 20% to 40%, use the cellphone to help you judge your sound. That's me.

If you think you are trying to improve from 98% to 100%, you're going to need the good mic, good system, and good room. (and maybe a blindfolded, impartial judge.)
Man, I still disagree with this equating recording quality to playing quality. They are 2 completely different things. A high fidelity well-recorded session does not really make someone sound like a better player.

It's like saying an actor becomes better at acting in HD.
_________________
JW - musician and educator
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ebolton
Regular Member


Joined: 03 Feb 2021
Posts: 19
Location: New Hampshire, USA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jaw04 wrote:
Man, I still disagree with this equating recording quality to playing quality. They are 2 completely different things. A high fidelity well-recorded session does not really make someone sound like a better player.

It's like saying an actor becomes better at acting in HD.


What I'm saying is what I need to hear to improve myself as a 20% competent player is easily discerned on a cell phone, while the extremely subtle changes highly competent players are looking for may not be.

This seems like it should be so easy to understand, especially for educators.
_________________
-Ed
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mm55
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 01 Jul 2013
Posts: 1366

PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bflatman wrote:
... So why is it so important to some members to persuade musicians to not buy a 30 dollar microphone and use instead a cellphone that costs nothing for making important recordings....

... They decided to persuade me that using any cellphone is good enough at zero cost, and according to them it is a mistake to spend 30 dollars on a microphone just to try to get a good recording....

... So according to them there is no such thing in existence as a bad microphone....

... arguments such as that a 2 dollar microphone is better for a recording task than a 50 dollar microphone or that the cheapest mic costing pennies is a good mic ...


You're still blaming other posters for making arguments they didn't make. You seem to be very angry at those arguments. Maybe you'd be less angry if you stopped fabricating arguments that anger you. Your choice, of course, but if you keep making long and inflammatory posts, railing against people for saying things they didn't actually say, somebody might respond.
_________________
'75 Bach Strad 180ML/37
'79 King Silver Flair
'07 Flip Oakes Wild Thing
'42 Selmer US
'90 Yamaha YTR6450S(C)
'10 Carol CPT-300LR pkt
'89 Yamaha YCR2330S crnt
'89 Rudy Muck Conductor crnt
'13 CarolBrass CFL-6200-GSS-BG flg
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jaw04
Veteran Member


Joined: 31 Dec 2015
Posts: 416
Location: Oakland, CA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ebolton wrote:
Jaw04 wrote:
Man, I still disagree with this equating recording quality to playing quality. They are 2 completely different things. A high fidelity well-recorded session does not really make someone sound like a better player.

It's like saying an actor becomes better at acting in HD.


What I'm saying is what I need to hear to improve myself as a 20% competent player is easily discerned on a cell phone, while the extremely subtle changes highly competent players are looking for may not be.

This seems like it should be so easy to understand, especially for educators.
I got you, but I just don't think it works that way. I've learned more from recording myself in my house on my phone than I have from hearing the playback in professional recording sessions. Just from my experience. To each their own.
_________________
JW - musician and educator
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sdr93trp
Regular Member


Joined: 29 Mar 2021
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The benefits of using of a cell phone to take recordings of yourself during practice are

1. It's easy and convenient.

2. It's generally accurate enough.

Do you need to take them with a grain of salt in regards to your tone color? Yes. But if your response is terrible, you'll hear it. If your pitch wobbles, you'll hear it. If your timing is off, you'll hear it.

Of course there are a lot of models out there and not all cell phones are created equal. If you have an iPhone 11 or 12, you can probably get some decent results if you do it right. If you have a $50 prepaid flip phone, probably not. It really just depends on what you're trying to use.

Btw, nothing wrong with a $50 pre-paid flip phone if all you care about is being able to make a phone call every now and then.

Just remember, YMMV.
_________________
SDR

Yamaha YTR-6335 MV Bb
1936 Buescher Aristocrat LP235
MP- Kanstul CG3
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
astadler
Regular Member


Joined: 11 Feb 2014
Posts: 81
Location: Kansas City, MO

PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This whole thread seems rather ridiculous, but my two cents: don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good. There are many many ways you can benefit from recording yourself with even the worst phone microphone. Does that mean you shouldn’t bother investing in higher quality recording devices? No, but it doesn’t mean that using the phone is a waste of time. Even the best players can still benefit from it, and it tends to be the easiest and most convenient way for most people to record themselves.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
hibidogrulez
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 25 Jun 2020
Posts: 719
Location: Europe

PostPosted: Sun May 02, 2021 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A few days ago I recorded myself playing and played a particular phrase on both trumpet and flugelhorn for comparison. The bit on the flugelhorn didn't go so well (intonation was very much off) yet when I listed to the recording, it was pretty much in tune.

Could it be that my cellphone failed to pick up the overtones that were out of tune? I found it a rather weird experience to be honest, I was 100% sure I goofed up greatly and yet the recording didn't have any of it.
_________________
Enthusiastic amateur with good intentions. My personal experiences may not match yours. Value my posts as you see fit.

Plays an Olds Recording with AR Resonance mouthpiece(s)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bflatman
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 01 Nov 2016
Posts: 720

PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2021 3:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hibidogrulez I think you are nailing it.

What I said was cellphones are cheap and do not have the ability to record trumpet tones realistically so I questioned whether we should use them at all.

Many have said I should record myself to demonstrate to them that the recordings are bad but the problem with that is there is no standard to compare the recording against.

All I can do is provide 2 identical recordings they will both sound the same you cannot compare a recording against a recording to decide if the recording is good enough when both recordings are made the same way.

Cheap microphones record tones from 80 hz to 12000 hz and can only handle up to 60 db amplitudes

Trumpets generate tones up to and beyond 20000 hz and amplitudes up to 110 db so mics must have this sensitivity to record trumpets correctly. That is physics and is the laws of acoustics at work.

Cheap microphones clip the tones and distort much of what they do record.

I believe hibidogrulez you have reported the effects that you noticed of this clipping.

If I am to use a recording to improve my playing I have no intention of using a clipped and distorted recording to do it. I need a clean recording of all frequencies generated or I may miss something important.

I need a mic that can handle 20000 hz and 110 db and a cellphone cannot handle that.

How can anyone hope to improve if they dont use equipment that lets them hear themselves correctly. If the recording equipment makes you sound bad then the only way you can make yourself sound better is by changing the recording equipment not by changing yourself.

It is not good enough to say "I know cellphones are bad but they are cheap and convenient" cheap and convenient leads to low quality in everything.

Cellphones sound nothing like the reflected sound from a hard surface. The sound reflected from a hard surface is reality.

In other words cellphones do not sound like reality. Members have gone to great lengths to try to convince me that I am wrong and should accept cellphone recordings as "good enough" and I do not accept those weak arguments.

I will say this. If a player is going to base his tonal development upon a bad recording and he knows it to be bad then he should not be surprised if his tone is bad and never improves.

I want to improve and I need the best recording to do that not the worst

Cellphones are not fit for purpose that is an end of it.

Of course that is just my opinion and the fact that this opinion is suppported by the laws of physics the laws of acoustics sound engineers and the microphone industry does not mean anything.

If members are happy with their cellphone recordings then that is great, it is just not for me.
_________________
Conn 80a Cornet
Boosey & Hawkes Emperor Trumpet
Olds Fullerton Special Trumpet
Selmer Invicta Trumpet
Yamaha YCR 2330II Cornet
Selmer Student Trumpet
Bohland and Fuchs peashooter Trumpet
Boosey and Hawkes Regent Cornet
Lark M4045 Cornet
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
hibidogrulez
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 25 Jun 2020
Posts: 719
Location: Europe

PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2021 5:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, in all fairness there's a lot of things that the cellphone recording does record properly. I've used it to check my timing, speed, steadiness of tone, etc., and in many other recordings the differences in timbre are also noticeable enough to have some use.

But in the recording I described in my previous post, I'm just at a loss what exactly happened. Is it possible for a note to be in tune on its base frequency and not in its overtones for example? Or is it something else?
_________________
Enthusiastic amateur with good intentions. My personal experiences may not match yours. Value my posts as you see fit.

Plays an Olds Recording with AR Resonance mouthpiece(s)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bflatman
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 01 Nov 2016
Posts: 720

PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2021 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Absolutely yes you are quite right, cellphones are good for recording and revealing some issues in playing I dont deny that.

In my practice I am working on articulation richness roundness of tone core and body as well as smoothness and in almost all these areas I dont find cellphones to be of any value.

When I record a rich tone with good core and body on a cellphone it is recorded as really thin and lacking any richness.

My ears tell me the sound is good, and my audiences also tell me the sound is good. Therefore the sound must be good.

I am hoping pretty soon to be able to directly compare cellphone recordings and studio mic recordings to get to the bottom of this.

Thank you for your enlightened comments, and thanks to the many members who contributed even if we disagreed I am grateful for the contributions.
_________________
Conn 80a Cornet
Boosey & Hawkes Emperor Trumpet
Olds Fullerton Special Trumpet
Selmer Invicta Trumpet
Yamaha YCR 2330II Cornet
Selmer Student Trumpet
Bohland and Fuchs peashooter Trumpet
Boosey and Hawkes Regent Cornet
Lark M4045 Cornet
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
lipshurt
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 24 Feb 2008
Posts: 2441
Location: vista ca

PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2021 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You dont need 110 db or 20Khz response. Actually probably what you are hearing that you dont like is the high mids about 3K

A real nice ribbon mic like a Shure 300, or Rca77 or 44 sound great on trumpet and they roll off a LOT around 8K, and there is nothing on the analyzer at 10 or 12k. Trumpet doesnt have anything you want to hear in that range anyway.

If a decent phone like an iphone 11 sounds real bad on trumpet it mainly because the omni directional mic is picking up the trumpet and also a hard loud refection off a wall that hits the mic out of phase to trumpet wave. That makes "comb Filtering" and that sounds terrible on trumpet, or probably anything. It can make open trumpet sound pretty close to harmon mute. That is mic placement error, not microphone error.

The other thing that can make it terrible, is if the mic is on automatic input level control, and most simple apps are like that. When there is no sound, the mic turns way up, and then when you play the first trumpet note, the mic is all the way up and makes your note front disatrously bad. ANd it can even turn all the way up between stacatto 8th notes, make every single attack just terrible. That is what automaic gain control does, and its terrible for music. That is the fault of the recording app though. A good app doesnt do that.

This has been hashed around a lot in this thread but some folks just dont want to learn how things work i guess.
_________________
Mouthpiece Maker
vintage Trumpet design enthusiast
www.meeuwsenmouthpieces.com
www.youtube.com/lipshurt
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
sdr93trp
Regular Member


Joined: 29 Mar 2021
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bflatman wrote:


In other words cellphones do not sound like reality. Members have gone to great lengths to try to convince me that I am wrong and should accept cellphone recordings as "good enough" and I do not accept those weak arguments.


Sorry but that's because you're unwilling to accept the idea that many times, it's because of operator error. I use an iPhone 12 with the Tonal Energy app to make recordings when I practice. I've done the recordings in small rooms with no acoustics (a practice room at the local university) and big rooms with pretty solid acoustics (a local church sanctuary). I also own an AT2020 mic that I've carried with me to do some recordings as well. The fact is, the room had far more impact on the quality of the recording than the mic itself.

At the church, the iPhone recording and the AT2020 recording had very little difference and sounded pretty decent. In the little practice room, both sounded horrible and clipped and made my sound come across as nasally.

I'm not sure as to the quality of mics on other brands of phones such as Samsung or Motorola, but if you already own a recent model iPhone and have a decent space to practice in (even a living room should suffice), there's no need to go out and spend extra on a microphone simply for the purposes of recording yourself practicing.

The only real noticeable difference is going to happen when you get up to $300+ microphones and most of us are better off using that bread for something else. My AT2020 is a $100 microphone that I only picked up because I was trying my hand at Twitch streaming (which failed miserably lol). I honestly can't recommend it to a trumpet player who already has a recent model iPhone (or even Android in many cases). It's just not enough of a difference to justify it.
_________________
SDR

Yamaha YTR-6335 MV Bb
1936 Buescher Aristocrat LP235
MP- Kanstul CG3
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Fundamentals All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Page 4 of 5

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group