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Fake or Real ? Bach MT VERNON



 
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haas
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Joined: 10 Jun 2020
Posts: 25
Location: EUROPE

PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 1:47 pm    Post subject: Fake or Real ? Bach MT VERNON Reply with quote

Hi, I bought a bach mt Vernon 7c. I play it great i wonder if it is original or fake ? What modern mouthpiece can it be compared to ? Greetings from Europe




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oxleyk
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Joined: 12 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The engraving that makes me think it wasn't stamped. Are those mill marks in the engraving?

I had a Mt. Vernon 7C once. I bought it for $25 and sold it for $40. The only mouthpiece I ever made money on.
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benlewis
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Joined: 21 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All my Mt. Vernons read:

VINCENT BACH CORP MT VERNON NY "size"

All capital letters, no punctuations...

I'd guess it's a copy. That being said, if it plays well for you and you didn't pay a premium for the provenance, good on ya!

HTH

Ben
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StartingUpAgainAt53
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Joined: 30 Jan 2018
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Location: Half Moon Bay, CA

PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have several Mt Vernon mouthpieces I inherited- 8 are marked as benlewis says. Three have punctuation for MT. CORP. and N.Y. (edited to MT. from M.T.)

Agree, if it works for you then that is all that matters unless your trying to sell it.

Cheers,
Marc


Last edited by StartingUpAgainAt53 on Sun May 09, 2021 4:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Crazy Finn
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Joined: 27 Dec 2001
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Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota

PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The stamping is too regular and clean to be authentic.

https://www.bachloyalist.com/bach-mouthpieces-lettering-variations/
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JeffM729
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Joined: 27 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've never seen a Bach MT VERNON mouthpiece without the NY afterward.
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huntman10
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Joined: 30 Aug 2017
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Location: Texas South Plains

PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I saw something like that on eBay, looks like it was computer engraved, not stamped. I vote for a copy, but if it plays well, you got a mouthpiece that works for you.
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huntman10
Collector/Player of Fine (and not so fine) Brass Instruments including
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Irving
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Joined: 11 Feb 2003
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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bach Mt. Vernon 7Cs aren't worth much money so I wonder who would go to the trouble of trying to make a fake copy? Check the throat opening. Modern post Mt. Vernon Bach mouthpieces are made with a 27 throat (3.65). Many Mt. Vernons were made with a 28 throat (3.56mm), so if it has a 28 throat you know it is a real Mt. Vernon.
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Crazy Finn
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Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota

PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Irving wrote:
Bach Mt. Vernon 7Cs aren't worth much money so I wonder who would go to the trouble of trying to make a fake copy? Check the throat opening. Modern post Mt. Vernon Bach mouthpieces are made with a 27 throat (3.65). Many Mt. Vernons were made with a 28 throat (3.56mm), so if it has a 28 throat you know it is a real Mt. Vernon.

I've seen Asian copies of things that aren't worth much before.

There are Asian copies of Bach Strad trumpets. There are also Asian copies of Yamaha student trumpets. You would think they wouldn't bother with the latter, but they do.
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Mike Prestage
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Joined: 09 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 1:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The sharp edges to the ornamentation on the shank are another pointer to this being a copy.

I doubt the people making decisions about what to fake have much knowledge or insight into the finer points of the trumpet mouthpiece market. The Bach 7C is a 'best-selling' mouthpiece and there's loads of hype/mystique about the products of the Mt. Vernon factory. If you know those two things...

Mike
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loweredsixth
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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 5:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There was a post some time ago about these mouthpieces. They are reproductions. As mentioned before, there’s no “NY” on that mouthpiece.
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loweredsixth
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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here it is: https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1566968
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Irving
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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 5:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a Rome, New York so maybe there is a Mt.Vernon , China?
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Aspeyrer
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Joined: 18 Nov 2019
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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is NOT a “Bach” brand mouthpiece.
But, it’s also not a copy. They didn’t scan the inners or outers of a Bach Mt Vernon mouthpiece to create this.
The size is probably close to a stock 7C but depends on the wear of the cutter at the time yours was made.

On a side note; I think it’s kind of cool and I’m a little jealous. It’s unlikely these supposedly new pre 1965 “Mt. Vernon Bachs” with modern packaging would even put a knick in current conn-selmer sales. If you like the mouthpiece and didn’t pay too much, good on you.
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