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motoboy
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Joined: 04 Sep 2005
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 Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:42 am Post subject: B&S Metropolitan vs. Challenger II reverse leadpipe? |
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Does anyone have experience playing these two C trumpets? I am looking for something new and these are in my price range. I did a back to back on their Challenger II Bb and a Bach Anniversary 43 and I loved the open feel of the B&S.
Thanks! |
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J. Landress Brass
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Joined: 29 May 2006
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Location: New York City
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| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2021 9:26 am Post subject: |
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I designed the Metropolitan C trumpet from the ground up. It is very different from the standard B&S C.
Everything on the horn is new. We made it with a 2 piece valve section with nickel silver upper balusters and skeletonized spring barrels. The height of the section was also reduced.
I made the leadpipe mandrel and was then copied and put into production in Germany. The receiver and finger hook are also of my design and set to an optimal gap. We made special jigs to solder the leadpipe together to ensure the right gap and shoulder at the venturi.
The bell is a completely new mandrel also and has a side seamed with a brass bead. When I was making the prototypes I had 7 different bells with new profiles and selected the one that worked the best.
All the bracing is also new, the foot print on the slides is smaller and the braces are made of nickel silver. The Z braces are narrower and the braces from the valve casing to bell and leadpipe are modeled after Besson braces and have nickel silver feet with a brass spacer. The water key saddle and key itself are also redesigned and we removed the water key from the third slide.
The final and coolest thing is my invention of the Harmonic Balancing System on the 1st second and third slides This system allows for the pull knobs to be changed out for different size and weights which allows the player to tweak and adjust the feel, slotting, projection and centering. I prefer a medium weight on the 1st slide, heavy weight on second and light weight on the 3rd slide.
We are also pairing the Metropolitan with Gard Elite double case with blue leather trim.
I have many of these in stock and am going through each horn to make sure they meet my standards and designs.
Feel free to ask any questions.
Josh Landress
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Josh Landress
J. Landress Brass, LLC.
38 West 32nd Street, STE 908, NY, NY 10001
646-922-7126
www.jlandressbrass.com |
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a.kemp
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Joined: 28 Aug 2008
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Location: NYC
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| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2021 9:48 am Post subject: |
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I've played both.
To me, the B&S Challenger II feels like a Bach without the Bach sound.
The Metropolitan is a much more colorful sound. And, the sound is much more malleable, too.
I think the Metropolitan also holds together at loud dynamics and speaks easier in soft dynamics than the Challenger. |
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motoboy
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Joined: 04 Sep 2005
Posts: 130
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| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:30 am Post subject: |
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Thanks, all!
Would you say one has more of a free blow than the other? I am trying to get away from a horn with lots of resistance.
I play on a Curry 1BC or sometimes a Flip Oakes 1TCC. |
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J. Landress Brass
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Location: New York City
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| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:35 am Post subject: |
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| motoboy wrote: | Thanks, all!
Would you say one has more of a free blow than the other? I am trying to get away from a horn with lots of resistance.
I play on a Curry 1BC or sometimes a Flip Oakes 1TCC. |
The resistance on the Metropolitan is quite nice. It is neither too tight or too big. It has a more open venturi than the regular C but doe not feel like it.
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Josh Landress
J. Landress Brass, LLC.
38 West 32nd Street, STE 908, NY, NY 10001
646-922-7126
www.jlandressbrass.com |
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motoboy
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Joined: 04 Sep 2005
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| Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 10:29 am Post subject: |
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I have narrowed my choices down to a used CX4 or a new Metropolitan. There's not much of a price difference, the Schilke is local and I can try it first.
But it's my 50th birthday present and I'd like something new as a present to myself. |
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J. Landress Brass
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Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 425
Location: New York City
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| Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 10:49 am Post subject: |
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| motoboy wrote: | I have narrowed my choices down to a used CX4 or a new Metropolitan. There's not much of a price difference, the Schilke is local and I can try it first.
But it's my 50th birthday present and I'd like something new as a present to myself. |
Where are you located? I have several ins tock and can arrange to send one out to you on trial.
_________________
Josh Landress
J. Landress Brass, LLC.
38 West 32nd Street, STE 908, NY, NY 10001
646-922-7126
www.jlandressbrass.com |
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motoboy
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Joined: 04 Sep 2005
Posts: 130
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| Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 11:09 am Post subject: |
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| J. Landress Brass wrote: | | motoboy wrote: | I have narrowed my choices down to a used CX4 or a new Metropolitan. There's not much of a price difference, the Schilke is local and I can try it first.
But it's my 50th birthday present and I'd like something new as a present to myself. |
Where are you located? I have several ins tock and can arrange to send one out to you on trial. |
PM sent. Thank you. |
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Goby
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| Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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| How does the B&S Metropolitan compare to a Yamaha Artist or Bach 190 229? |
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gmaxe
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OldSchoolEuph
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 8:31 am Post subject: |
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| J. Landress Brass wrote: | | The final and coolest thing is my invention of the Harmonic Balancing System on the 1st second and third slides This system allows for the pull knobs to be changed out for different size and weights which allows the player to tweak and adjust the feel, slotting, projection and centering. I prefer a medium weight on the 1st slide, heavy weight on second and light weight on the 3rd slide. |
Am I correct in understanding that the specific invention is the dual-purpose-ing of the pull nibs as harmonic balancers, not harmonic balancers, removable harmonic balancers, or removable harmonic balancers with multiple mass options? It's a great idea - practical, effective, and inconspicuous.
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Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
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J. Landress Brass
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Location: New York City
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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| OldSchoolEuph wrote: | | J. Landress Brass wrote: | | The final and coolest thing is my invention of the Harmonic Balancing System on the 1st second and third slides This system allows for the pull knobs to be changed out for different size and weights which allows the player to tweak and adjust the feel, slotting, projection and centering. I prefer a medium weight on the 1st slide, heavy weight on second and light weight on the 3rd slide. |
Am I correct in understanding that the specific invention is the dual-purpose-ing of the pull nibs as harmonic balancers, not harmonic balancers, removable harmonic balancers, or removable harmonic balancers with multiple mass options? It's a great idea - practical, effective, and inconspicuous. |
When I was making the prototypes in my shop I was working very late one night and making the pull knobs. I made a few different ones quickly to just get it done and not paying attention to size or weight. I had soldered a few second slides together and was shocked how differently the horn played with the different slides. I then unsoldered the pull knobs to see if it was the slide that change the playing, of which all played the same. This was the start of the idea of the Harmonic Balancing System. When I got the 1st factory made horn it was a night and day difference with how the horn played we implemented them on all 3 slides, thus allowing the player to tweak and adjust how the horn slots, responds as well as intonation.
Josh
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Josh Landress
J. Landress Brass, LLC.
38 West 32nd Street, STE 908, NY, NY 10001
646-922-7126
www.jlandressbrass.com |
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RUenvsci
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Joined: 28 Dec 2020
Posts: 34
Location: NJ, USA
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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I saw the b&s YouTube video with Josh several months ago explaining the metropolitan. Quite impressive! https://youtu.be/gl-FYf2KxuQ[/youtube]
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J. Landress Brass
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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There is also a great video with Werner Duwe going over all the different things we did with the C and the completely new designs we implemented.
https://youtu.be/_B-qW2qH8bI
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Josh Landress
J. Landress Brass, LLC.
38 West 32nd Street, STE 908, NY, NY 10001
646-922-7126
www.jlandressbrass.com |
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