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BarryWilson Regular Member
Joined: 15 Mar 2012 Posts: 35
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Posted: Sat May 15, 2021 12:23 pm Post subject: Strad Artisan or? |
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Gentlemen. At age 65 I'm looking into buying what will surely be my last trumpet. I spent a large chunk of time in a store this morning playing the Bobby Shew models 1 and 2, something made by Shires (not the Destino), a Strad 180 and a Strad 190. If I had to choose from all of those I would buy the Strad 180. I liked it's response, slotting and tone a little better than the 190. However, I asked and the guy said he could get a Strad Artisan AB 190 for me to try out...no charge. I really want to try it out before pulling the trigger but, as I said, I liked the 180 better than the 190. While I'm waiting on the Artisan to come in, would the gentlemen of the forum offer your observations about the 180, 190 and the AB190? _________________ Barry Wilson
Hodges, SC
Yamaha YTR 8310ZII Bobby Shew Custom
Yamaha YTR 8335 Gen I Xeno (Back up horn)
Yamaha Bobby Shew Flugel
Leblanc Paris C |
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trumpjosh Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Jan 2002 Posts: 741 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Sat May 15, 2021 12:27 pm Post subject: Re: Strad Artisan or? |
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Were you able to try the Shires AZ model? To me, it plays like a great 180S37 (with better intonation).
Also, the AB190 is pretty different from the other two Bach models. I feel it plays a lot bigger and darker. I prefer the 190 of the three personally. _________________ www.milanomusic.com |
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nltrumpet Veteran Member
Joined: 11 Nov 2019 Posts: 206 Location: Washington DC
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Posted: Sat May 15, 2021 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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If you're in the market for a Bach, the most important part of your search is finding which SPECIFIC horn (not the model) which works best for you. The quality control with Bach trumpets is... inconsistent. I've played on some very good Bach student models, some awful Bach pro models, and everything in between. Make sure you get to play the same horn you'll be taking home if you purchase it.
I'm personally a fan of the Yamaha New York Bb's. Good QC, but those can get pricey. Nothing wrong with Bach or Shires though! |
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Bryant Jordan Veteran Member
Joined: 16 Aug 2015 Posts: 410 Location: Utah, USA
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Posted: Sat May 15, 2021 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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I play an Artisan, and I absolutely love it. Beware, not all models will play wonderfully though. I’ve found the 190 to be better and more consistent than the 180. Just find the one you like best, and enjoy! |
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BarryWilson Regular Member
Joined: 15 Mar 2012 Posts: 35
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Posted: Sat May 15, 2021 2:00 pm Post subject: Thank You |
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nltrumpet wrote: | If you're in the market for a Bach, the most important part of your search is finding which SPECIFIC horn (not the model) which works best for you. The quality control with Bach trumpets is... inconsistent. I've played on some very good Bach student models, some awful Bach pro models, and everything in between. Make sure you get to play the same horn you'll be taking home if you purchase it.
I'm personally a fan of the Yamaha New York Bb's. Good QC, but those can get pricey. Nothing wrong with Bach or Shires though! |
I have heard this before. Thanks for reminding me. _________________ Barry Wilson
Hodges, SC
Yamaha YTR 8310ZII Bobby Shew Custom
Yamaha YTR 8335 Gen I Xeno (Back up horn)
Yamaha Bobby Shew Flugel
Leblanc Paris C |
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BarryWilson Regular Member
Joined: 15 Mar 2012 Posts: 35
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Posted: Sat May 15, 2021 2:02 pm Post subject: I Miss My Brain |
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nltrumpet wrote: | If you're in the market for a Bach, the most important part of your search is finding which SPECIFIC horn (not the model) which works best for you. The quality control with Bach trumpets is... inconsistent. I've played on some very good Bach student models, some awful Bach pro models, and everything in between. Make sure you get to play the same horn you'll be taking home if you purchase it.
I'm personally a fan of the Yamaha New York Bb's. Good QC, but those can get pricey. Nothing wrong with Bach or Shires though! |
I don't remember which Shires model it was. I had 4 trumpets in the room and my brain latched onto the more familiar models. That's one of the challenges of being 65. _________________ Barry Wilson
Hodges, SC
Yamaha YTR 8310ZII Bobby Shew Custom
Yamaha YTR 8335 Gen I Xeno (Back up horn)
Yamaha Bobby Shew Flugel
Leblanc Paris C |
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zaferis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Nov 2011 Posts: 2330 Location: Beavercreek, OH
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Posted: Sun May 16, 2021 3:43 am Post subject: |
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19037 50th Anniviersary Model
These are made with the same setup as was the 180's that we hold in high regard. Simply, a side seam bell, 2-piece valve casing, steel bell wire, and a reinvigorated attention to detail has revived the "37"
And change the mind-set about new Bach's being inconsistent, that is a memory from before the strike at the Bach factory-early 2000's.
I've played many, of these 50th Anniv. setups and they were all as good as the one in my case.
IMO, The Artisan models tend to have a larger core of sound, a darker tone if you will. _________________ Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman |
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AJCarter Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Apr 2007 Posts: 1280 Location: Indiana
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Posted: Sun May 16, 2021 5:12 am Post subject: |
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zaferis wrote: |
And change the mind-set about new bach's being inconsistent, that is a memory from before the strike at the Bach factory-early 2000's.
I've played many, of these 50th Anniv. setups and they were all as good as the one in my case. |
Maybe the 190s are good,, but Stock 180-37's still have plenty of QC issues even today. Happy to share details through a PM. _________________ (List horns here) |
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OldSchoolEuph Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2441
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Posted: Sun May 16, 2021 6:18 am Post subject: |
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AJCarter wrote: | zaferis wrote: |
And change the mind-set about new bach's being inconsistent, that is a memory from before the strike at the Bach factory-early 2000's.
I've played many, of these 50th Anniv. setups and they were all as good as the one in my case. |
Maybe the 190s are good,, but Stock 180-37's still have plenty of QC issues even today. Happy to share details through a PM. |
I've been to the plant multiple times, sampled liberally, and I'll just repeat what I typed just yesterday in another thread:
"To find true substantial defect in a Bach these days is rare - though not that long ago (at least to an old guy), it was too common. Bach tries to be consistent where quality/durability is concerned, but to encourage some variation where the playing characteristics that result will appeal to one player more than another at the same time. The Bach "Artist Select" program is a manifestation of this where horns are identified by that artist as fitting his/her particular tastes - for buyers who know those are their preferences too (OK, and also as marketing to the ones who want anything tied to their favorite player)
This variability was something Bach embraced - far more than the company of today even - but makes the difference between a horn being a good fit for a player, and a perfect fit. You just have to bear in mind that what is perfect for one player may be a big deterrent for another when you get to that level of refinement. Players being egotists (face it, all of us who crave the stage naturally are), they then call horns "junk" that are not exactly what they like - because they know better than anyone else.
For anyone interested in more detail on the Bach concept of balancing consistency with variation, you can read this at my site from a few years ago: http://www.trumpet-history.com/Consistently%20unique.pdf"
** And before anyone takes that the wrong way - I am saying we are all egotists who think everyone else should think/feel/react exactly as we do (otherwise they are "wrong") - me included!
OP: Get what you feel plays best easiest for you - don't let model names, marketing hype, or other's opinions deter you from what works best for you. _________________ Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20 |
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nltrumpet Veteran Member
Joined: 11 Nov 2019 Posts: 206 Location: Washington DC
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Posted: Sun May 16, 2021 8:14 am Post subject: |
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OldSchoolEuph wrote: |
OP: Get what you feel plays best easiest for you - don't let model names, marketing hype, or other's opinions deter you from what works best for you. |
Agreed. I love my Bach 180, but you have to find what works best for you. Good luck! |
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Dayton Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2013 Posts: 2041 Location: USA
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Posted: Mon May 17, 2021 1:41 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | While I'm waiting on the Artisan to come in, would the gentlemen of the forum offer your observations about the 180, 190 and the AB190? |
You are looking at what I regard to be three of the best horns on the market. I'm assuming that the 180 and 190 both had the 37 bell, which is the most common setup. That has been a standard for many decades with good reason. The differences between the 18037 and 19037 are subtle. They largely boil down to the differences in sound caused by the 190's side seam and the nickel on the ballusters.
Comparing them to the AB190 -- which I've only done at the ITG conference -- I found the AB190 to have a little more core or fullness to the sound, and a little more warmth. I think that if I was mainly a soloist I might prefer the AB190, but for the all-around playing that I do the 18037/19037 is ideal.
Good luck! |
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