• FAQ  • Search  • Memberlist  • Usergroups   • Register   • Profile  • Log in to check your private messages  • Log in 

what is the importance of trumpet bore size?


Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Horns
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Satchel
Veteran Member


Joined: 12 Apr 2021
Posts: 115

PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 3:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

zaferis wrote:
OH Man, sorry about that.. I guess the coffee hadn't kicked in this morning... I was stuck on mouthpieces, must have been a remnant of a dream / nightmare...


It seems to me your answer about mouthpieces was very relevant in fact.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Satchel
Veteran Member


Joined: 12 Apr 2021
Posts: 115

PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 3:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Divitt Trumpets wrote:
The air molecules inside a brass instrument function like waves in a pond or a skipping rope, not water from a hose.
They vibrate in place sending energy back and forth through the instrument, reflecting between the lips and just past the bell.


This is really interesting. I trust your expertise as an instrument maker. I looked at your website. The trumpets are gorgeous. I wonder if you could point to a page that goes into further explanation. Since I started trumpet, about a month ago, I am fascinated with the physics of the instrument, the way the harmonics happen, the amplification of the sound, etc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Divitt Trumpets
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 11 Aug 2015
Posts: 519
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're interested in trumpet physics, check out the writings of A. Benade, J. Backus. They wrote some really amazing books in the matter.
_________________
www.divitt-trumpets.com
www.facebook.com/divitt.trumpets
www.instagram.com/divitttrumpets
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
OldSchoolEuph
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 07 Apr 2012
Posts: 2426

PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 5:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is a complex topic. And again, manufacturers package different design elements with different bore sizes. The thinner wall tubing with L bore vs ML for instance.

The graphic that says more air is required is simply wrong. High school physics is all you need to know that. If you leave out the mouthpiece however, and if the leadpipe opening (the "cut point" or "venturi") is larger on the L bore model, as is often the case, then it would be true (for the horn alone) - but the moment you put the mouthpiece on there the horn ceases to regulate flow.

Resistance is a perception based on how hard one works to achieve the expected dynamic at the ear. This is not a conscious thing. But if you want to understand how a large bore can make you still feel like you are getting no flow, go to the hardware and buy a 9 foot length of soft vinyl tubing with a 1/2" inner diameter (that's a .500 bore - bigger than any trumpet). Put an old bell in one end (or a metal oil funnel from said store), and tape up your mouthpiece shank to fit in the other end. You now have a roughly Bb bugle. Play it. You will feel like you are blowing into a wall. This is because the soft walls of the tubing soak up the energy creating a massive perception of resistance. The realities of a trumpet are the same with mass placement, bracing, overall weight, bell thickness, alloy, etc.

The other line on the chart, timbre, has a relationship to bore, and helps explain why orchestral C trumpets have moved to being L bore since the 70s when tonal expectations were brighter. The relative conicity of the bore, and the placement of conical expansion relative to cylindrical runs as well as relative to turbulent zones, has a significant effect on the filtering aspect of the system (trumpets being a filter-amplifier for the pink noise provided at the embouchure). With a larger bore, even though it is a small difference, it none-the-less allows for greater creativity in the design of the leadipe tapers which pair with the bell tapers to determine the tone of the horn. It gives the designer a little more room to shape the conicity profile. It is not, however, a requirement, nor a firm correlation. There are plenty of large bore horns that are designed to be bright, and the .438 bore Conn 22B early model can be played remarkably dark for an early modern trumpet - as can an M-bore Bach (.453) with several different Bach bells designed for that timbre. So for a manufacturer to say that they link bore to timbre, sure, they have made it easier on their design team - but its not a physical property, just a design tool.
_________________
Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com

2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
JayKosta
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 24 Dec 2018
Posts: 3276
Location: Endwell NY USA

PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 5:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Satchel wrote:
... I am fascinated with the physics of the instrument, the way the harmonics happen, the amplification of the sound, etc.

-----------------------------------
The actual 'physics' can be quite interesting, but it is not clear that learning or knowing about them is helpful in developing actual 'playing ability'.

About 'resistance' and 'open blow' - my understanding is that
1) it is NOT about the need or ability to 'move air' through the horn.
2) long answer ...
When a note is being sounded, a 'standing wave' gets produced in the tubing. In relation to the lips, that standing wave acts similar to a small oscillating piston in the tubing so that air pressure against the outer surface of the lips is changing at the frequency of the note being played. It is that 'changing air pressure' against the lips that is felt as resistance - a 'tight blow' would be one with high resistance, and an 'open blow' one with less resistance.
It can be a personal choice about how much resistance is preferred.
The amount of resistance is related to the ease with which the player can synchronize lip adjustments to match the the pitch of the standing wave - I think this is related to how well a horn 'slots' the notes.

'Bending' the pitch of notes up or down can be easier on a horn with an 'open blow'. That can be good for a player who has precise control of lip adjustment, because it gives more ability to 'fine tune' each note. But it also makes it easier to have the pitch of the note slightly wrong if the lip adjustment is not ideal.
_________________
Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
OldSchoolEuph
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 07 Apr 2012
Posts: 2426

PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Satchel wrote:
In practice, from a player perspective, all other things being equal, with the same mouthpiece, I wanted to know if it is particularly difficult or more easy to blow into a 0.438" bore trumpet or , say, a 0.468". Manuel de los Campos said from experience it's irrelevant.

At the moment I'm inclined to believe it is irrelevant.


Just saw this, so I'll add a personal anecdote in direct answer - but this is not science, simply one experience.

I have a number of 22B-early models (there is one sitting next to my laptop right now to practice on vacation), but I perform on a Taylor-built Austin Winds Stage 466 primarily. I will grab a 22B off the table or stand in my house, run a few passages, and grab my "good horn" and head to rehearsal or performance with no impact in switching. That's a 0.438" bore to a 0.466" bore.

Now the Conn is a bit brighter, it was the second serious orchestral trumpet by am American maker, a time when trumpets were bright and brassy. None-the-less, it darkens down with the right mouthpiece and playing. It also is rather "tight" in the upper register (that being the perception thing again - it requires more energy to play the higher you go). This has nothing to do with bore, it is simply that between 1921 and 2017, a lot was learned about efficiency in trumpet design and when you get two guys like Doug Mains and Andy Taylor collaborating, you get the best of current tech. I handed Doug Mains, the designer of the Stage 466 this Conn 22B sitting by me now a few days ago and he agreed that until you go up high, the resistance profile is virtually indistinguishable, and as a designer, agreed that the Conn tightens up from its bracing, bell flare, and mass placement, not bore.

By the way, some people need more resistance as you go up in order to play high, others can't play high with greater resistance - different people interact with trumpets differently (it's why we have so many different designs)
_________________
Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com

2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20


Last edited by OldSchoolEuph on Mon May 17, 2021 6:05 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
adagiotrumpet
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 31 May 2006
Posts: 901

PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Manuel de los Campos wrote:
adagiotrumpet wrote:

According to a telephone conversation I had with someone at the Getzen factory, the only difference between the ML and LB is in the leadpipe and the tuning slide.


No. The outer diameter is the same for both the ML and L bore Getzen Eterna, the inner diameter of the L bore is bigger so the tubing of the L bore instrument is thinner

I suppose that you have a false memorie; the ML Severinsen models came with two tuning slides, a ML bore and a L bore tuning slide so the buyer could fine tune his / her instrument to personal taste


Actually, my memory is just fine. The ML Severinsen model came to me used and with only one tuning slide. And yes, I am well aware that these horns originally came with two slides.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Satchel
Veteran Member


Joined: 12 Apr 2021
Posts: 115

PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Divitt for the reference. I'll look it up.

Thank you OldSchoolEuph for your post. I'll get back to it. The reason I'm interested is also because I am looking at vintage horns that have a significantly smaller bore than most.

I understand that past the mouthpiece "venturi", the sound is more a function of the hardness of the walls of the tubing, qualities of the metal, mass, balance, placement and type of braces, places of turbulence, etc. (perhaps parallel to what could be said of guitar wood, brace placement, etc).

OldSchoolEuph wrote:
The relative conicity of the bore, and the placement of conical expansion relative to cylindrical runs as well as relative to turbulent zones, has a significant effect on the filtering aspect of the system (...) it allows for greater creativity in the design of the leadipe tapers which pair with the bell tapers to determine the tone of the horn. It gives the designer a little more room to shape the conicity profile.(...) it's not a physical property, just a design tool.


I thought trumpet was considered a tubular or cylindrical instrument. It is often described so, especially in relation to the cornet. For example here:
https://www.normans.co.uk/blog/2013/10/trumpet-v-cornet/
"On a Trumpet the bore is Cylindrical, with a consistent diameter throughout the instrument. In contrast, a Cornet has a Conical bore"

This striked me as a little simplified, seeing the obviously conical bell pipe, which takes up a significant amount of tubing and is seemingly important in forming the sound. Also, if I understand correctly, trumpets do not actually maintain a constant bore throughout all the tubing, even before the bell pipe. Correct? One measures the bore at a certain point (one of the valves?).

On a sidenote, I think I read somewhere that the difference in harmonics inside a tube vs the ones inside a cone are the reason why the saxophone (conical instrument) has an octave-switching key where the clarinet (cylindrical instrument) switches to the 12th note.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Satchel
Veteran Member


Joined: 12 Apr 2021
Posts: 115

PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just read JayKosta's post and the ones after. Thank you for the anecdote OldSchoolEuph.
JayKosta wrote:

The actual 'physics' can be quite interesting, but it is not clear that learning or knowing about them is helpful in developing actual 'playing ability'

I am certain it's not helpful in playing, but the way this 3-valves instrument works is still interesting in itself, to me, coming from an 88 mechanical keys instruments
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Satchel
Veteran Member


Joined: 12 Apr 2021
Posts: 115

PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OldSchoolEuph wrote:
the Conn was the second serious orchestral trumpet by am American maker

now I'm curious: what was the first?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Divitt Trumpets
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 11 Aug 2015
Posts: 519
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Satchel"

I thought trumpet was considered a tubular or cylindrical instrument. It is often described so, especially in relation to the cornet. For example here:
https://www.normans.co.uk/blog/2013/10/trumpet-v-cornet/
"On a Trumpet the bore is Cylindrical, with a consistent diameter throughout the instrument. In contrast, a Cornet has a Conical bore" [/quote]

Both instruments are cylindrical through the valve block, which is where the bore is measured.
Cornets can have a larger ratio of tapered to cylindrical tubing, but the difference is very small compared to trumpet.

https://www.robbstewart.com/difference-between-trumpet-and-cornet


One thing that does matter is where the cylindrical section is along the length of the horn. How much taper goes before the block, and after. This changes a lot on trumpet, flugelhorn and cornet.
_________________
www.divitt-trumpets.com
www.facebook.com/divitt.trumpets
www.instagram.com/divitttrumpets
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
kalijah
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 06 Nov 2003
Posts: 3257
Location: Alabama

PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 6:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
but airflow through the trumpet is not how the trumpet works
The air speed past the mouthpiece is negligible. The air molecules inside a brass instrument function like waves in a pond or a skipping rope, not water from a hose.


While there is indeed a standing wave in the instrument, air flow from pressurized air is required to "feed" power to the tone.

Power=flow x pressure

The player does "feel" the resistance of the complete system. The total resistance includes BOTH the tonal resistance due to the acoustic impedance of the instrument AND the resistance of the lip aperture and the airway before it.

This total resistance is = pressure/flow

But low resistance in the instrument alone does not necessarily equate to "ease". Ease is largely related to efficiency as well, and lower impedance instruments can be less efficient in regard to the complete system.

While resonance and acoustic impedance of an instrument are fixed. The played-resistance, and the efficiency, varies with the players skill in creating tone.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
OldSchoolEuph
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 07 Apr 2012
Posts: 2426

PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Satchel wrote:
OldSchoolEuph wrote:
the Conn was the second serious orchestral trumpet by am American maker

now I'm curious: what was the first?


At the start of the last century, if you wanted to play a piston valve trumpet in a major Symphony (and vented natural trumpets being the traditional alternative, lots of people did!), you played a Bb trumpet made by the French firm of Fontaine-Besson ("F.Besson"). American makers at the time offered trumpets including a number of Conn models (the advertising in 1913 describing the horn as "strident" and "piercing" and "a true trumpet tone"), most of which were elongated cornets (King, Holton, Buescher, Boston) and a few like Conn started to look like trumpets (Vega, Blessing) but lacked the right lengths and placement of conicity in the bore.

In 1911, Holton released a completely new design after having it morph into being in three distinctive redesigns across the span of 1910. This design had many of the elements necessary to play and sound like a modern trumpet - although a rather bright one. Endorsed by leading orchestral trumpeter Gustav Heim, it quickly caught on as the first American alternative to the Besson trumpet In 1914, Austrian arguably-deserter Vincent Bach arrived in the US and won the assistant principal slot in Boston playing an antique Besson cornet. Heim, who was in Boston at the time, promptly handed him a 1914 low-pitch-only pre-production New Holton Trumpet. If you place it side by side with a Strad, you will find that Bach ultimately made his horns more and more like Holtons (including the bore size choices) during the time he was a maker 1925-1962.

Holton had this market to themselves until Conn came out with a new line-up in 1921 of which the 22B New York Symphony model proved the successful one. By that time, Holton had moved on in late 1919 to the Revelation design which was lighter, minimally braced, a faster ("more open") taper leadpipe and in the next generation in 1922, reversed construction trumpet. A teenage Reynold Schilke was an apprentice there at the time and that school of design we now think of a "Schilke style" while the older more traditional Besson look we call "Bach style". It all happened at Holton in a little over a decade.

If you want to look at a lot of old horns and see this progression, you can look at the virtual museum on my site (www.trumpet-history.com).
_________________
Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com

2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20


Last edited by OldSchoolEuph on Mon May 17, 2021 12:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
shofarguy
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 7003
Location: AZ

PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll share my experience with two pairs of trumpets that were identical in specification within each pair, except for bore size.

Example #1 - Kanstul 1000 & 1001
These two models are identical except one has a .460" bore, while the other a .464" bore. Playing them side-by-side, which I did often back when Kanstul had their showroom, the ML bore 1000 always felt more resistant as I would go up the scale and it required less energy from me to bring in the brilliant edge to the sound, compared to the 1001.

Example #2 - Kanstul 1510-A & Kanstul 1510-A Special Order
These two C Trumpets were ordered by Ferguson Music in La Crescenta, CA. The normal 1510-A came with a .462" bore and the special order horn had a .464" bore, if I recall correctly. Each horn had a point in its range above the staff where I felt an upturn in resistance. I felt it one or two half-steps later in the larger horn.

Overall, bore is just one of the many factors that influence how a horn performs, but it isn't insignificant or irrelevant to the design. It might be said that it is irrelevant to the player's success and I would agree to about 95%. That other 5% has to do with a player's physique, development and approach to playing.
_________________
Brian A. Douglas

Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper


There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Divitt Trumpets
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 11 Aug 2015
Posts: 519
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kalijah wrote:
Quote:
but airflow through the trumpet is not how the trumpet works
The air speed past the mouthpiece is negligible. The air molecules inside a brass instrument function like waves in a pond or a skipping rope, not water from a hose.


While there is indeed a standing wave in the instrument, air flow from pressurized air is required to "feed" power to the tone.


Air is required to excite the lips, but as seen in experiments by KO Skinsnes and Richard Smith, no air is needed inside the instrument to play it.

https://youtu.be/WZvDvuxjHvU

There's another video of this from KO/Stomvi but I can't seem to find it today.
_________________
www.divitt-trumpets.com
www.facebook.com/divitt.trumpets
www.instagram.com/divitttrumpets
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
OldSchoolEuph
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 07 Apr 2012
Posts: 2426

PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Divitt Trumpets wrote:
kalijah wrote:
Quote:
but airflow through the trumpet is not how the trumpet works
The air speed past the mouthpiece is negligible. The air molecules inside a brass instrument function like waves in a pond or a skipping rope, not water from a hose.


While there is indeed a standing wave in the instrument, air flow from pressurized air is required to "feed" power to the tone.


Air is required to excite the lips, but as seen in experiments by KO Skinsnes and Richard Smith, no air is needed inside the instrument to play it.

https://youtu.be/WZvDvuxjHvU

There's another video of this from KO/Stomvi but I can't seem to find it today.


Here we go again!

Kahlijah is analogizing the working of a trumpet to an electronic circuit using Ohm's law (V=IR). The math works. Electromotive force in volts is analogous to pressure, Current in amps is analogous to flow through the system, Impedance in Ohms is analogous to the natural inefficiencies of the trumpet that require us to work harder to achieve a result ("resistance", or at least a perception of it). Power in watts, force X current, is then analogous in his representation to sound pressure (volume).

Its a great analogy and it works at the level of the mouthpiece system. It works for the leadpipe system. And other spots in the horn. The problem is that the first in line then regulates the rest, so applying it to the horn as a whole can be problematic.

Inevitably, it degenerates into debating if a horn can be played without flow. Yes. Schilke used this in his research, the National Music Museum electromechanically "plays" horns with no flow to spectrally characterize them. But, Kahlijah is right that a human cannot play a trumpet without flow.

Everybody is right! Lets not fill ten pages with this again!
_________________
Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com

2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
kalijah
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 06 Nov 2003
Posts: 3257
Location: Alabama

PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Air is required to excite the lips, but as seen in experiments by KO Skinsnes and Richard Smith, no air is needed inside the instrument to play it.


It is not just to excite the lips. It is to provide air power to the sound.

One can NOT play the instrument without pressurized air flow into the instrument. And the instrument INCLUDES the mp cup. Many draw an incorrect conclusion based on Smith's experiment.

The standing wave can easily transmit through the gentle flow inside the instrument, or through no flow. But one cannot provide power to the standing wave to offset the sound power output of the bell without air flow into the instrument.

If no flow, there is no power into the system, and no sound.

Or, for a negative pressure source, and a negative flow into the instrument, the power ( pressure x flow) is positive and the sound power is positive. Not a practical way to play though.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kalijah
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 06 Nov 2003
Posts: 3257
Location: Alabama

PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The problem is that the first in line then regulates the rest, so applying it to the horn as a whole can be problematic.


Not at all. The complete horn has STRONG acoustic properties. Not just simple flow resistance. The impedance varies with frequency and this is GREATLY influenced by the "downstream" instrument. As a matter of fact, the non-mouthpiece portion of the instrument has a dominant effect on the acoustic impedance peaks. The mouthpiece alone has weaker and fewer acoustic impedance peaks.

Quote:
Power in watts, force X current, is then analogous in his representation to sound pressure (volume).


No. Sound pressure is a point measurement and relates to perceived loudness at some point in the sound field. The complete integral outward transmission of the sound is indeed power. Not sound pressure.


Last edited by kalijah on Mon May 17, 2021 12:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
OldSchoolEuph
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 07 Apr 2012
Posts: 2426

PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kalijah wrote:
Quote:
The problem is that the first in line then regulates the rest, so applying it to the horn as a whole can be problematic.


Not at all. The complete horn has STRONG acoustic properties. Not just simple flow resistance. The impedance varies with frequency and this is GREATLY influenced by the "downstream" instrument. As a matter of fact, the non-mouthpiece portion of the instrument has a dominant effect on the acoustic impedance peaks. The mouthpiece alone has weaker and fewer acoustic impedance peaks.


To an extent I agree, but as regards bore size determining what a horn plays like (where we started, have to disagree that this fits. Its a very complex topic and it just doesn't boil down to simple rules - which, of course, is what everyone wants in these threads.
_________________
Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com

2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
kalijah
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 06 Nov 2003
Posts: 3257
Location: Alabama

PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another thing that players often miss is that resistance is due to the "work" or "push" we are applying to the sound. It is not all simple viscous flow effects.

Resistance, air flow, air pressure, power and efficiency are all related in the player/instrument system. And it has nothing to do with electronics.

Unless one understands the system on these terms, they never will understand the system. It is not simply wiggling lips that make the sound.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Horns All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 2 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group