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SteveDurand Regular Member
Joined: 28 Dec 2015 Posts: 80 Location: Orange County, California
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Posted: Sat May 22, 2021 9:24 am Post subject: |
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Up to the D over high C I do not think about it. There are long ingrained behavioral patterns that work fine up to that point.
Above that I need to be mindful not to increase arm pressure and not to let the mouthpiece slip down from it's position on my top lip. This range is a more recent acquisition and 45 years of bad habits die hard.
Steve |
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dershem Heavyweight Member
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Joined: 14 Jun 2007 Posts: 1887 Location: San Diego, CA
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Posted: Sun May 23, 2021 7:10 am Post subject: |
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Staying in tune and blending with the music. _________________ BKA! Mic Gillette was my mentor and friend.
Marcinkiewicz Mic G. trumpet, Custom Marcinkiewicz mpc. (Among others)
Marcinkiewicz Rembrandt flugel, Benge 8Z cornet, King 2B, Bach 36, Benge 190, Getzen 3062... many more. All Marc. mouthpieces. |
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JoseLindE4 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 791
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Posted: Sun May 23, 2021 9:52 am Post subject: |
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In order of importance:
1. Musical goals
2. Sound specifically
3. Time and subdivisions
4. In an emergency if time or pitch is wonky or it’s hard to hear well, there are spots my tongue goes and there’s a track the horn moves on (think Reinhardt pivot) that’ll make things happen that need to happen. |
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steve0930 Veteran Member
Joined: 07 May 2018 Posts: 191
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Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 6:32 am Post subject: |
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Hello Players
Quote: | Let's call "higher" anything over top of staff G on up to however high you can go. |
Expanding on the original OP question Who thinks that playing in this range is easier than playing in the staff? And if Yes, what helped get you in that mind state?
5 years from now I hope to feel like that. One glimmer of an idea I have is "higher means less air which means less effort if you can master the shape of the note" but still very much a job in progress for me - who's managed it?
cheers and stay safe - Steve _________________ My Number 1 supporter
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JayKosta Heavyweight Member
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Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3303 Location: Endwell NY USA
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Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 8:22 am Post subject: |
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steve0930 wrote: | ... One glimmer of an idea I have is "higher means less air which means less effort if you can master the shape of the note" ... |
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I think that I understand what you mean, but it's probably just a 'sensory feeling' rather than an actual use of 'less air' and 'less effort'.
Playing those 'high notes' will usually require -
1) Higher internal air pressure - and that requires more 'blowing effort'.
2) More effort used for lip/embouchure adjustment.
It is likely that when those high notes become easier to play, that it will feel like less air/effort is needed than NOW, but I think that is a consequence of becoming skilled and trained on the technique of producing those notes.
I think the order of importance is -
1) Learn the necessary lip and air adjustment needed to play the notes (with good technique).
2) Practice so it become habitual.
3) Don't be concerned with the amount of air or effort UNLESS it indicates a problem with technique. _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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Al Innella Heavyweight Member
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Joined: 08 Jul 2008 Posts: 755 Location: Levittown NY
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Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 6:08 am Post subject: |
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What do you think about when you play in the staff ? what do you think about when you play below the staff ? How do you think about all the things you have to do fast enough when changing registers in an arrangement ?
If I had to think about what I had to do to play each note ,I would not be able play. What I think about is playing the music in front of me, not how to play the trumpet. |
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spitvalve Heavyweight Member
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Joined: 11 Mar 2002 Posts: 2158 Location: Little Elm, TX
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Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 10:37 am Post subject: |
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I try not to think. Playing high notes kills brain cells. ![](images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif) _________________ Bryan Fields
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1991 Bach LR180 ML 37S
1999 Getzen Eterna 700S
1977 Getzen Eterna 895S Flugelhorn
1969 Getzen Capri cornet
1995 UMI Benge 4PSP piccolo trumpet
Warburton and Stomvi Flex mouthpieces |
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HackAmateur Regular Member
Joined: 10 Jul 2021 Posts: 80 Location: Kentucky
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Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2021 7:21 am Post subject: Re: What do you think about when playing higher? |
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Robert P wrote: | Let's call "higher" anything over top of staff G on up to however high you can go.
Whatever you consciously think about or do, visualize, whatever is involved that makes it work for you. Feel free to include mechanical specifics, I'm looking to compare notes. |
Well, with all notes up until High D, I don't really think about anything. The notes just fly out of the horn whenever I want them to do so.
With High Eb, I'm thinking "keep this note solid" because, when I first came back to trumpet in January 2019, I couldn't get past the High D barrier. So, psychologically, High Eb is daunting to me because I remember what it was like to not being able to play it strongly... at all. So, High Eb is a psychological thing for me. Physically, I can play it strongly every single day now, but man it took a LOT of practice to get there.
For High E, I'm thinking about slotting and making sure it's in tune. High E is a SUPER squirrely note for me. I can't play it in tune unless I'm using valves 1 and 2 and using first valve tuning slide to flatten it a bit.
For High F, High F#, and (when I'm lucky), the G above High C, I'm thinking "strong chops, relax everything else, don't choke off the note with mouthpiece pressure".
It's worth noting that my highest note I can play powerfully with fresh chops is High F# above High C. So, notes around that area require a lot more conscious thought and focus than notes below it.
That being said, playing High D or anything below that is basically brainlessly easy, meaning those notes are automatic and require no conscious thought to produce. Other than focusing on maintaining a good tone, notes from Regular High G (top of staff) to High D aren't difficult physically or psychologically.
Of course, when my chops are exhausted, I still have a strong High Eb, but the High E is weak (or just unslotted) and notes above High E cause an embouchure collapse (aka. my chops can no longer hold that much compression)... but that's only when my chops are VERY tired at the end of a very demanding endurance or range practice session. _________________ As a composer, I will never write "B Sharp", "C Flat", "E Sharp", or "F Flat". I don't care what the key signature is. I'm not an academic; I'm a musician.
-Bach Strad 180 series 37
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Brassnose Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2016 Posts: 2052 Location: Germany
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Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2021 11:24 am Post subject: |
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HackAmateur, from your posts I gather you are a returning player (?) with a range to F# over DHC? I have been playing for 40 years and „played“ a DHC about twice in my life in my practice room. My usable range for gigs is about high E, that is, E above high C. How do you do play over an octave higher as an amateur? How do you practice that?
My main thing to keep in mind when playing high is to not press too much and keep the mp high on the upper lip. If I have too much lower lip in the mp my range will drop, especially if the upper lip can’t vibrate. _________________ 2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier |
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HackAmateur Regular Member
Joined: 10 Jul 2021 Posts: 80 Location: Kentucky
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Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2021 12:24 pm Post subject: Edited for formatting mistake... |
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Brassnose wrote: | HackAmateur, from your posts I gather you are a returning player (?) with a range to F# over DHC? I have been playing for 40 years and „played“ a DHC about twice in my life in my practice room. My usable range for gigs is about high E, that is, E above high C. How do you do play over an octave higher as an amateur? How do you practice that?
My main thing to keep in mind when playing high is to not press too much and keep the mp high on the upper lip. If I have too much lower lip in the mp my range will drop, especially if the upper lip can’t vibrate. |
Either I misspoke or you misinterpreted exactly which notes are my highest usable notes with fresh chops.
I am in fact a comeback player (came back in January 2019). However, my usable range is the F# above HIGH C, not the one above Double High C.
I think the confusion may come from the fact I sometimes call the G above High C "Double High G". And I call the G on top of staff "Regular High G".
So my range, to clarify, is up to F# above regular High C, not Double C.
But, that's still higher than what you're saying is your usable range, so I'll tell you what I practice anyway (it might be helpful).
1.) I practice usually 7 days a week, but once a month or so, I'll take an actual full rest day, so one week I might only practice 6 days.
2.) I practice in segments of 45 minutes to 1 hour and 15 minutes. So, I usually practice between 2 and 3 hours per day, but it's broken into three separate hours. I rest as long as I play, exercise by exercise, but also if I practice an hour, I rest at least an hour.
3.) In my normal fundamentals practice, I include high notes. I don't necessarily try to maximize range when doing this, but notes that are high but not maximally high, I include A LOT of those notes in my practice of basics.
4.) Two days per week, each of these days being 72 hours apart (so, like Wednesdays and Saturdays for example), I'll do a 25 minute warmup, rest for an hour, and then specifically practice building up my maximum range. Between each exercise reaching into high notes, I'll "reset" my chops by playing (air-only, no articulation) notes around low G. This idea is a concept from the Maggio System.
To elaborate on Number 4, an example would be starting on Middle E and playing 'Mary Had A Little Lamb' (or any very simple melody that's only a perfect fifth between lowest and highest note). The highest note in that would be Regular High G (on top of staff G). I rest as long as I play. Then, I, using air only, no articulation, play notes at or around low G for the same duration I played the melody, making them resonate. After this "reset" with the low notes, I then start on Middle F (F at the top of the staff) and play 'Mary Had A Little Lamb' again, rest as long as I play, reset with air-only no articulation low notes.
I keep going like this until I reach the maximum part of my range. When I reach a note that I cannot play after 2 or 3 attempts (usually High G# or High A (the ones above High C, not DOUBLE High C), I go back down until I end with the same melody on High C. I don't go all the way back down to Middle E where I started.
For the record, Mary has never had a Double A (what I call the A above regular High C). But, sometimes Mary does have a Double G# (the G# above regular High C).
That's just one of several range-building exercises I will do on my "high note days", which are only 2 days per week, spaced apart by 72 hours (so chops can actually recover).
After playing a random simple melody as musically as possible in the manner I described, starting at the lowest high note (G on top of staff is what I call the first "high note")... then I'll do 2 or 3 octave scales, starting with a 2 octave scale from Low C to High C. Rest as long as I play (there's a pattern, here). Then, reset with low notes (pattern here). And then, Low C# to High C#... etc. When I reach a ceiling, a scale whose highest note I can't play after 2 or 3 attempts, I'll go back down and end on High C again.
So that's how I structure my 2 "high note days" per week. That'll likely help you break the High E barrier, but only if your embouchure needs to become stronger. If your barrier has nothing to do with embouchure strength, and it's purely a technique thing, I wouldn't be able to help you. You'd likely need to find someone who is a "high note expert" or a pro lead player... but that's only if your range barrier ISN'T due to the maximum strength of your chops.
ADDENDUM: Oh, after resting from maximum range exercises on those range days, I'll play other simple things 8va in my third session of "high note day". A good starting point for you (with your High E range) would be the Getchell Book etudes. They're simple. Play one line as written. Rest as long as you played. Then, play that same line of the Getchell Etude up the octave. _________________ As a composer, I will never write "B Sharp", "C Flat", "E Sharp", or "F Flat". I don't care what the key signature is. I'm not an academic; I'm a musician.
-Bach Strad 180 series 37
-Schilke 15
-Bob Reeves s692s w/ custom rim |
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jtodelltrumpet New Member
Joined: 03 Mar 2020 Posts: 3
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Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2021 1:22 pm Post subject: Re: What do you think about when playing higher? |
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Robert P wrote: | Let's call "higher" anything over top of staff G on up to however high you can go.
Whatever you consciously think about or do, visualize, whatever is involved that makes it work for you. Feel free to include mechanical specifics, I'm looking to compare notes. |
Nothing but the sound of the note |
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x9ret Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Jun 2014 Posts: 517 Location: Liverpool, UK
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Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2021 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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If you've been doing it incorrectly for some time then be prepared to have to tell yourself / think different things to do it right for some time as well. Bad habits are hard to reverse. _________________ https://payhip.com/sheetmusicplayalong |
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