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Developing better range


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delano
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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trickg
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:41 am    Post subject: Re: Developing better range Reply with quote

TheAidanAU wrote:
Hello everyone,

I am not sure if this is the right place to post, since it says in the description of "High range development" "double C or higher", I have only been playing for about 4 years and I am not at the level I think I should be at. I can only play a high C at best (two octaves above the C that most beginners play as their first note) when I am lucky. I am currently starting marching band, and many of the pieces are very range-challenging. I believe that I can play the speed, but not the range. Is there anything I can do daily to improve this range? I try to practice at least 20-30 minutes every day, but it does not seem like I am getting any better. Thank you for your help.

I so wish HS marching band would just go away - it ruins so many young, aspiring players - but that's a whole other topic for another time.

Aidan, certain things with the horn just can't be rushed. There is no tip or trick that's going to unlock your upper register. It takes time, and dedicated practice.

At your level, you're better off working the fundamentals of playing. If you do that, you'll get to where you have that 2nd ledger C whenever you need it, and usually the D and Eb.

There was a time in my life where I chased range a little bit and I was able to play up to 4th ledger G pretty consistently, but in most of the gigging I've done over the course of my life (disclaimer - I've never been a lead player in a big band - that's a different animal altogether) I've gotten along just fine with having a "high C/D" (2nd ledger) without needing anything more. I've gigged big band, (3rd and 4th books - they are important too) concert band, local orchestra, brass quintet, Latin band, wedding dance band, liturgical work, and my lack of stratospheric ability has never hindered me.

If you work fundamentals, the ease of range up to the 2nd ledger C will come all on its own, but you need to understand: it WILL NOT happen without putting in the work. If you truly want to be a good trumpet player, you're going to have to leverage your natural ability with some work in the practice room. Fundamentals are SO important, and they are largely ignored by so many young players who are in search of a quick fix.

There is no quick fix. 20-30 minutes a day isn't going to cut it. I put in 40 minutes over my lunch break just fiddling around running through some music, and that wasn't even doing any practice.

Get used to the idea that if you want to truly excel, you'll need to have that horn in your hands 2-3 hours a day, and not just farting around playing the songs assigned by your band director. Get an Arbans book and work through it systematically. Get a Clarke Technical Studies book and work through that systematically. Get a Hering book of lyrical etudes and work though those, working on your phrasing.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always try to not double post - I try to let at least one other person post something before I jump back in again, but I wanted to post something I wrote in a note to another player via PM about why my chops developed, even though I may not have been practicing the "correct stuff" at the time.

Quote:
I've recounted a number of times the big jump in ability I had as a Freshman in HS, and why I think it happened. I wasn't even practicing the right stuff - I was only vaguely aware at that point that there were such things as method books I was supposed to be working out of. My older sister had an Arban's book, but I certainly wasn't using anything out of it. Ultimately I think it came down to sheer time on the horn. This is what my day looked like:

Before school, anywhere between 15-30 minutes before first period band started at 8:15, I was in the band room "warming up" - I was playing in some form or fashion - just having the horn in my hands was good enough for me. At 8:15 we had concert band, so I'd do whatever playing was required at that point.

After lunch, I'd run right back up to the band room and get back on the horn. I had a split 6th period - jazz band and show choir - so every other day I'd also play for jazz band. If not jazz band, I'd toodle on the horn until it was time to go to show choir.

When school dismissed for the day, I did not yet have an after-school job, so it was right back up to the band room to fiddle around on the horn for a bit.

Then we had pep bands - usually about twice a week during winter and spring for volleyball and basketball games. I would HAMMER my chops for those, playing as loud, hard and high as I could. (Note: in hindsight, this probably did as much harm as anything else.)

Wash, rinse, repeat. Part of what made it so exciting was that I had moved out of playing middle school level repertoire, and had moved straight into high school level stuff, and I had never before had so much music that I needed to know - I had charts for concert band, jazz band, and a whole folder full of pep band tunes.

I still wasn't "practicing" but I was getting better anyway due to the sheer amount of time I put in, and I wasn't even practicing at home that much - by the time I'd go to bed at night I would have had the horn in my hands for 3-4 hours. Even though I wasn't doing focused work on technique, everything was improving anyway - it couldn't help but to improve.

Another big jump in ability came during my first year at my first Army band assignment. I was lucky and got into a band that focused on performance over military stuff. During the winter months, I had rehearsals from 9:00-11:30, and again from 1:00-3:30 - usually concert band in the morning, big band in the afternoon. At that point I was practicing at night, and really digging in to the method books. During that time, having the horn in my hands 6-8 hours on any given day was not unusual.

Looking back, I wonder that if I had known then what I know now, and had gotten serious about putting time in on the fundamentals rather than just getting by on the fact that I picked things up quickly, extrapolating technique from the music I was playing, I wonder how much better I could have been by the time I graduated. As it was I became a full time Army musician, but I could have been a much better player if I'd spent more time building my foundation and making sure there weren't so many gaps in my abilities.
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steve0930
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Felllow Trumpet Players

Lionel wrote: (I have paraphrased)
Quote:
Unfortunately, some 99% of us apparently do not have an embouchure that can fully develop. Because our chops are not applying physical law to our best advantage.......I now feel grateful that even as my seventies approach, heck at least I did get the chance to finally figure it out!

My words of support to the gallery here are simply this: THERE IS A SOLUTION! Physical laws can be applied. Sometimes these require an ''outside the box'' thought pattern. .. Apply critical thinking to your practice. And don't just practice. Learn what these physical laws are and start applying them.

Do not waste your whole career playing on a limited embouchure.


I agree with Lionel here. Pretty much every day I row 5k on a Concept2 rowing machine. I have the right technique, unlike the majority of "fun rowers" you see in a gym. The idea of rowing every day with a sub optimal technique is absurd but for four years I was doing just that on the trumpet. The rowing machine solution is an easy You tube video away but for trumpet players "breaking the code" is much more elusive - frustrating, addictive, exhilarating, the adjectives change on any given practice session but the goal is the same.

I am way behind you Lionel but in the last 2 weeks I am now producing easy "C"s above the staff. (I remember two months ago laughing to myself at my wishful thinking that one day I would be practising easy "C" s the way I used to practice easy "G" s on top of the staff) I have only been focusing on physical changes to the face / embouchure to achieve this progress. *

I agree Lionel - you have to work out the solution otherwise you are like those fun rowers in the gym who will never get close to their potential, however hard they practice. As you urge us to do, we just have to figure it all out, just like life.

Cheers and stay safe

Steve in Helsinki

* This week's learning - if I feel any pressure outside the immediate "reed support mechanism" area (eg in my cheeks) or if the C is not easy my embouchure technique is breaking down - better then to stop than carry on "rowing" with poor technique.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

steve0930 wrote:
... if the C is not easy my embouchure technique is breaking down - better then to stop than carry on "rowing" with poor technique.

Not necessarily. If you are practicing in a controlled manner to improve your range and your embouchure technique is breaking down at the high C, how else to teach the embouchure to play high C and beyond than to play on?
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi
Quote:
Not necessarily. If you are practicing in a controlled manner to improve your range and your embouchure technique is breaking down at the high C, how else to teach the embouchure to play high C and beyond than to play on?


Thanks for replying so quick. Yep, less than 6 weeks ago, on this very thread, I was thinking the same - I was in the Pops 500 a day school. I now think maybe I was wrong. I am coming round to the idea - and thanks to contributions from this forum from people like Bill - that the easier and purer I can play 3 or 4 notes below my peak range - then the quicker the higher notes will announce themselves almost effortlessly (certainly much less effort than I earlier erroneously perceived was required)

I am sure it makes no sense to anybody but right now I'm thinking the way to go higher is to go inside the note and not above the note.

cheers - good to have discussion - steve

Any rowers reading this - I also think the same logic holds good - I want to row at sub 1.52 pace in Sept so today (gosh - it was hot for Finland) I forget that goal and rowed as relaxed as I could at an easy 1.56 pace - within a month 1.55 will be the new "easy" and so on...
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

steve0930 wrote:
Hi
[...

Any rowers reading this - I also think the same logic holds good - I want to row at sub 1.52 pace in Sept so today (gosh - it was hot for Finland) I forget that goal and rowed as relaxed as I could at an easy 1.56 pace - within a month 1.55 will be the new "easy" and so on...


I'm a rower and I'm watching this, though my days at 1:52 or even 1:55 are long gone. Best of luck in September.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is the
Quote:

Pops 500 a day school.


steve0930 wrote:

... the easier and purer I can play 3 or 4 notes below my peak range - then the quicker the higher notes will announce themselves almost effortlessly

I am of the school of thought that says if you pursue the high range in a controlled manner, then by gaining higher notes it will make the lower notes fatter and easier to play.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

steve0930 wrote:
...
I am sure it makes no sense to anybody but right now I'm thinking the way to go higher is to go inside the note and not above the note. ...

---------------------------------------------
Does Billy's suggestion of perfecting notes a few steps lower enable you to obtain the feel of playing 'inside the note'?
So that when you do attempt higher notes you automatically strive for that 'inside' feeling.
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HackAmateur
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2021 3:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Developing better range Reply with quote

TheAidanAU wrote:
Hello everyone,

I am not sure if this is the right place to post, since it says in the description of "High range development" "double C or higher", I have only been playing for about 4 years and I am not at the level I think I should be at. I can only play a high C at best (two octaves above the C that most beginners play as their first note) when I am lucky. I am currently starting marching band, and many of the pieces are very range-challenging. I believe that I can play the speed, but not the range. Is there anything I can do daily to improve this range? I try to practice at least 20-30 minutes every day, but it does not seem like I am getting any better. Thank you for your help.


I just highlighted in bold the exact reason why you're having trouble with playing above High C after playing trumpet for 4 years.

20-30 minutes ought to be how long your warmup routine takes.

I'd recommend 20-30 minutes as your WARMUP routine (don't play a bunch of high notes for 30 minutes, I mean actually warm up with lower and middle range notes and basic fundamentals exercises). Your primary focus during warmup should be getting the best tone possible and making sure the notes have the same tone qualities/timbre as each other. Rest as long as you warmed up for. Then...

I'd also recommend you add an extra 45 minutes to 1 hour of practice on top of that long warmup routine, wherein you're practicing the fundamentals of the trumpet. Of course, reach for high notes during your normal practice routine, but you shouldn't focus only on high notes. Just fundamentals.

By fundamentals, I mean:
1.) Tone
2.) Flexibility
3.) Articulation
4.) Finger Dexterity (speed of your fingers and consistency of playing with a good sound through "fast" patterns)
5.) Range/Endurance (before specifically focusing on range and endurance, wait until your 20-30 minute warmup AND an extra 1 hour of practice per day feels normal instead of exhausting to you)

In other words, you need a good practice routine. If you're anything like me, the basic Schlossberg and the first couple of Clarke's Technical Studies exercises will help you a lot.

But aside from that, make sure to get either rest days or easy days (your "easy days" should be 20-30 minutes total, not your normal practice days)... because the only thing worse than not practicing enough is practicing too much without letting your chops recover.

It doesn't seem like you're in any danger whatsoever of over-practicing at 20-30 minutes per day. However, you should practice more, and as correctly as you can... and take a light day or day off whenever possible when you're tired.

If you have a performance the next day, that's a light day. Don't do a full-on crazy practice session literally the day before a multiple hours rehearsal or a literal performance. Keep it light the day before long rehearsals or performances. You need fresh chops for long rehearsals and performances!
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HackAmateur
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2021 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gwood66 wrote:
Aiden,

Like others here I am not an "expert". I will try to give you some direct answers that you can implement now, while you look for a teacher. (some of this may be repeat advice) Nobody on this forum can really give you specific advice, because none of us have seen or heard you play.

Find or create a basic routine that includes fundamentals that you play every day. This is in addition to the music that you are currently practicing. There are no magic notes or routines, however, your routine needs to hit the different fundamental areas. This will keep your playing balanced.

The routine would look something like this:

https://www.gregwingtrumpet.com/uploads/2/1/4/0/21407028/20_minute_routine_revised_june_2013.pdf

or this

https://www.lonokeschools.org/cms/lib/AR01001483/Centricity/Domain/95/Trumpet%20Warmup.pdf

You can get a newer version here:

https://www.ultrapureoils.com/free-sheet-music-for-trumpet

Some Method Book you should check out:

Embouchure Builder by Lowell Little
Irons 27 Groups of Exercises
Clarke Technical Studies
Arban Complete Conservatory Method

Some free versions of Clarke and Arban can be had here:

http://www.bbtrumpet.com/the-pops-mclaughlin-trumpet-foundation-page/

You will probably gain a few notes over the next few months just by practicing 30 more minutes a day.

Ensure that you are resting enough during your practice sessions. After you play an exercise (6 to 9 bars), remove the horn from you lips and rest for approximately the same amount of time. After 20-30 minutes of playing take a 5 minute break. Your goal should be to keep you lips as fresh as possible while practicing. Rest before you get worn out, not when you get worn out.

High notes are more about coordination than brute force. Its like a recipe. Everything has to be in the right proportion (air, tongue level, lip to lip pressure)

Learn not to overblow. Overblowing leads to the using to much mouthpiece pressure death spiral.

Dont strain or contort your face to "hit" notes. This leads to bad habits that have to be undone later.


When I said your WARMUP should be 20 to 30 minutes, this is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. These links are perfect for you.
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As a composer, I will never write "B Sharp", "C Flat", "E Sharp", or "F Flat". I don't care what the key signature is. I'm not an academic; I'm a musician.

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trickg
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2021 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm pretty sure young Aiden is a flash-in-the-pan poster here - he hasn't posted anything since June 7th, and probably hasn't seen all of the responses to this thread.
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HackAmateur
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2021 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

trickg wrote:
I'm pretty sure young Aiden is a flash-in-the-pan poster here - he hasn't posted anything since June 7th, and probably hasn't seen all of the responses to this thread.


I didn't want to say this at first. I like to assume everybody is being honest and sincere, but in this case...

I feel like Aiden's post may have been a troll post. I mean, every year on this forum, there are posts like: "I practice 10 minutes a day for 6 years. Then, I take the entire summer off. Why am I not Maynard Ferguson yet in terms of range?"

And those HAVE TO BE troll posts. There's no way anybody is seriously asking questions of that nature... or so I think.

I like to give people the benefit of a doubt, but I just wanted to raise my concern that maybe this was another troll. I mean, come on... "I practice 20-30 minutes a day for 4 years, why haven't I mastered the upper register?" Paraphrased. It's just silly the types of questions we see here.
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As a composer, I will never write "B Sharp", "C Flat", "E Sharp", or "F Flat". I don't care what the key signature is. I'm not an academic; I'm a musician.

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-Bob Reeves s692s w/ custom rim
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royjohn
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2021 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My assessment is that TheAidanAu is a real Australian high school freshman, just as he indicated. Like a lot of kids, he's focused on improving his range and he asked several questions about that and related issues. He got lots of good suggestions, but he seems to have tailed off in paying attention after he didn't get the easy answer he wanted. He doesn't have a teacher or a very good horn, so I suppose he'll keep trying and wandering about. What he really needed to do was pick a strategy out of the several that were proposed and give it some time to increase his range. That and a few lessons from a chop doc would have helped a lot.

For myself, I do believe that practice is necessary for a reliable upper range and a reliable everything else, but I do think that the right embouchure is a key to fairly easy high range development. I've written here before about trying Stevens Costello, Callet, Balanced Embouchure, and a few other systems before getting typed by Dave Wilken, a Reinhardt teacher. About three long lessons of eight or ten hours put me on the right track and made the high register pretty easy. Now all I need is regular practice, something that medical issues have interfered with off and on...it worked for me, but I can't make other people believe it...
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2021 6:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

royjohn wrote:
My assessment is that TheAidanAu is a real Australian high school freshman, just as he indicated. Like a lot of kids, he's focused on improving his range and he asked several questions about that and related issues. He got lots of good suggestions, but he seems to have tailed off in paying attention after he didn't get the easy answer he wanted. He doesn't have a teacher or a very good horn, so I suppose he'll keep trying and wandering about. What he really needed to do was pick a strategy out of the several that were proposed and give it some time to increase his range. That and a few lessons from a chop doc would have helped a lot.

For myself, I do believe that practice is necessary for a reliable upper range and a reliable everything else, but I do think that the right embouchure is a key to fairly easy high range development. I've written here before about trying Stevens Costello, Callet, Balanced Embouchure, and a few other systems before getting typed by Dave Wilken, a Reinhardt teacher. About three long lessons of eight or ten hours put me on the right track and made the high register pretty easy. Now all I need is regular practice, something that medical issues have interfered with off and on...it worked for me, but I can't make other people believe it...


I think an embouchure change is too drastic for most people, particularly if they've already obtained a good tone (regardless of their chosen timbre, be it dark, bright, or mixed).

Obviously, 'Balanced Embouchure' has worked for people and unlocked a lot of new semitones for those people. But, I think a drastic embouchure change ought to be considered a last resort, not one of the first things you try.

I can't speak for others, but it's not that I don't believe you or something. It's just that I'm cautious about promoting embouchure changes when it might be as simple as: player has underdeveloped chops strength, player is fighting against a bad tongue arch instead of allowing the tongue to do its thing, player doesn't know how to produce lip compression, etc.

When I see a player who can't play higher than a High C, like literally 0 semitones above High C, with High C as their literal max range... the first thing that I think of is they haven't figured out lip compression. But, it could be they're fighting against their tongue and not allowing it to arch as needed. I mean it could be a lot of things that don't require a total embouchure change.
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As a composer, I will never write "B Sharp", "C Flat", "E Sharp", or "F Flat". I don't care what the key signature is. I'm not an academic; I'm a musician.

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-Bob Reeves s692s w/ custom rim
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2021 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HackAmateur wrote:

Quote:
think an embouchure change is too drastic for most people, particularly if they've already obtained a good tone (regardless of their chosen timbre, be it dark, bright, or mixed).


In my case, it isn't like I picked up the horn one day and the next day I changed embouchures. It was probably five years or more trying other things before I met Dave Wilken and tried an embouchure change. Also, I don't think that people have a good tone and good flexibility and attack, etc., and just don't have range. They play well or they don't and it's obvious in other ways besides range.

In the end, ya pays your money and takes your choice. The embouchure change, for me, wasn't a BFD. I changed and let my embouchure go where it had been wanting to go without trying to keep it within the parameters of traditional nostrums. In my case, I have a very high natural embouchure and I play in the red of the lower lip and I had been trying to keep the embouchure down and stuff all of my (big) lower lip into the cup, which didn't work for me. When I let it go where it wanted to and learned the correct embouchure motion ("pivot") for me, everything worked better pretty much immediately. I'm sure there was a period of awkwardness, but it really wasn't long.

The things you mention, tongue arch and compression, and others like air support, etc., are certainly things you should try in attempting to improve range, but if they don't work, then maybe an embouchure change is indicated. Maybe you need a chop doc to help you. It's not like experimenting with changing your embouchure is like cutting off your arm...you can always go back, and, in fact, it's likely to be all too easy to fall back into old habits, whether they work or not.

I just think that this "purgatory" thing of trying and trying without much progress is overdone. Kids pick up a trumpet in middle school and noodle around on it and get more serious in high school and by junior or senior year, some of them are playing lead and soaring up there. So for some people, four years of practice is enough to start developing into a complete player. Why do some do that and some languish? I think it's all down to proper embouchure and proper technique. If you don't have it, you are going to struggle and maybe after years of that, you'll make some subconscious changes that help you improve...or, judging from the histories I see on here, maybe not.
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