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Red Rot Devaluation Question



 
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trompette24
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Joined: 20 Jan 2011
Posts: 56
Location: San Jose, CA

PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:52 am    Post subject: Red Rot Devaluation Question Reply with quote

There's a cornet that I'm interested in buying but appears to have about a dozen or so spots that fit the exact description of red rot. The seller is asking about $2k which already sounds a bit high but I was considering it because the horn is no longer manufactured (Selmer Concept Cornet, I don't know anything about them, but curious to try it).

He didn't disclose anything about the spots in the listing description, I happened to see it on a photo I enlarged and then mention it to him. He has since sent me more photos and the spots appear throughout a good portion of the lead pipe. He says there are no leaks and I understand that red rot can take time to eat through the metal.

My questions is, knowing this horn's lead pipe has a death sentence and there likely would not be a replacement part, how much would this devalue the instrument? Should I just walk away?

Thanks in advance for your input!

Here is a Google drive link to two photos of the spots on the horn:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wj6Mqv4w4okBx9KN4M328AlP7xdD8eaD/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NyhfBt18aKd8sj1gZlI9sfOk8jdK0Iml/view?usp=sharingv[/img]
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Irving
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Run Russell run (away)!
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Master Jabroni
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are absolutely 0 Selmer Paris parts being made. If you guy it be prepared to replace the leadpipe in a few years. You will have to find a technician to make a proper copy which will be expensive.
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dstpt
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Irving wrote:
Run Russell run (away)!

Yes! Just like Forrest, Forrest Gump!
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Danbassin
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Joined: 13 Oct 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's quite a high cost for a used Selmer cornet. Is it one of the C/Bb/A models, or otherwise of historic or personal importance?

Those pictures show extensive and later-stage red rot, meaning the material will develop holes in short order, which will be exacerbated by ultrasonic cleaning and certain chemicals. If there was a concentrated spot, expertly-applied patches could make the horn play and almost look as good as new for years to come, however that's not the case here - this horn has extensive issues, which would be too many to reasonably patch up.

Not to simply parrot the advice given above, I would encourage you to ask the seller why an instrument with this level of irreversible damage should yield such a high price. Even if this were one of those rare beautiful horns I had to have, I personally wouldn't pay half the price you quoted in the OP.

Best,
-DB
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Divitt Trumpets
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Red rot is not a death sentence if proper care and maintenance is kept up.

Honestly that rot doesn't look that bad. If you have the horn cleaned properly and then swab out and oil the leadpipe before you play, the horn can outlast you.
Some players rot things quickly. Others don't. I've never had a horn develop rot, but I know some people who go through instruments every 5 or 10 years.
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OldSchoolEuph
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The damage does not look that terrible. At worst, some patching might be called for - so long as your body chemistry does not tend to produce red rot as well. Replacing a cornet leadpipe is exceptionally challenging, and there are only a few people in the world who could replicate that pipe in a way that would result in the horn playing the same - and they would be exceptionally expensive.

Considering all of those factors, I would "run" at the price indicated, but maybe not at a more reasonable one.
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yourbrass
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Joined: 12 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:58 am    Post subject: Re: Red Rot Devaluation Question Reply with quote

trompette24 wrote:
There's a cornet that I'm interested in buying but appears to have about a dozen or so spots that fit the exact description of red rot. The seller is asking about $2k which already sounds a bit high but I was considering it because the horn is no longer manufactured (Selmer Concept Cornet, I don't know anything about them, but curious to try it).

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NyhfBt18aKd8sj1gZlI9sfOk8jdK0Iml/view?usp=sharingv[/img]


Russell,
I agree w/the others - price is too high, rot is not fatal, could be dealt with.
I have one in the shop now and the owner says it really plays good.
Best,
-Lionel
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trompette24
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Joined: 20 Jan 2011
Posts: 56
Location: San Jose, CA

PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Danbassin wrote:
That's quite a high cost for a used Selmer cornet. Is it one of the C/Bb/A models, or otherwise of historic or personal importance?

Those pictures show extensive and later-stage red rot, meaning the material will develop holes in short order, which will be exacerbated by ultrasonic cleaning and certain chemicals. If there was a concentrated spot, expertly-applied patches could make the horn play and almost look as good as new for years to come, however that's not the case here - this horn has extensive issues, which would be too many to reasonably patch up.

Not to simply parrot the advice given above, I would encourage you to ask the seller why an instrument with this level of irreversible damage should yield such a high price. Even if this were one of those rare beautiful horns I had to have, I personally wouldn't pay half the price you quoted in the OP.


Best,
-DB


Thank you for the information and advice!
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AR Trumpets and Mouthpieces
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Yamaha 8310z Gen 1 Trumpet
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trompette24
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Joined: 20 Jan 2011
Posts: 56
Location: San Jose, CA

PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:06 am    Post subject: Re: Red Rot Devaluation Question Reply with quote

yourbrass wrote:
trompette24 wrote:
There's a cornet that I'm interested in buying but appears to have about a dozen or so spots that fit the exact description of red rot. The seller is asking about $2k which already sounds a bit high but I was considering it because the horn is no longer manufactured (Selmer Concept Cornet, I don't know anything about them, but curious to try it).

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NyhfBt18aKd8sj1gZlI9sfOk8jdK0Iml/view?usp=sharingv[/img]


Russell,
I agree w/the others - price is too high, rot is not fatal, could be dealt with.
I have one in the shop now and the owner says it really plays good.
Best,
-Lionel



Thanks, Lionel! I'm looking forward to visiting the shop again in the hopefully near future!
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AR Trumpets and Mouthpieces
Bach Mt. Vernon Trumpet 43/7
Bach Mt. Vernon Trumpet 37/43
Yamaha 8310z Gen 1 Trumpet
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Winghorn
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Joined: 07 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some people seem deathly afraid of a few spots of so-called red-rot.

Maybe it is just my body chemistry, but I have owned many used horns over the years with a little red-rot and the rot never progressed on any of them during my years of ownership. Of course, I keep my instruments cleaned and well-oiled and I play them regularly.

It seems the instruments with the most rot were the ones that sat in their cases for many years without being played. Without cleaning and protective oil, any grunge in the horn probably just sat there and festered away.

YMMV.

Steve
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