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Blown out trumpets



 
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thesplitmeister
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:49 am    Post subject: Blown out trumpets Reply with quote

This is a term I’ve heard a lot, and when I think about it I can’t work out exactly what it means. For those unfamiliar with the term it tends to relate to older trumpets or sometimes a trumpet that had belonged to a particularly loud/powerful player in the past and the instrument would be referred to as being “blown out” indicating that it won’t be as responsive as it once was.
Now, is that what’s really going on here? Are nodes hit so often that they start reacting differently over time, in a manner similar to water droplets cutting through stone with enough time, seems unlikely to me but that just comes from a gut instinct that vibrating air can’t effect metal is such a way. A repairer friend of mine had a theory that the solder deteriorated over time, which changed the connection points over the trumpet and changed the response. Or is the whole things a brass players myth, created by trumpet makers to buy their shiny new instruments rather than their cheaper second hand options. By the time someone has a trumpet they claim to be blown out there’s no way of testing it against its playability in its “prime” so the subjective nature of the description makes it more difficult to pin down.
What are your thoughts THers? Have you had a great horn that became blown out? Have you shied away from a second hand trumpet to avoid this? Or is it all nonsense?
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Divitt Trumpets
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Instruments change over time from use, but not because someone played loud.
Valves and slides wear and eventually leak.
I've never heard of a brass instrument referred to as blown out. I have heard it from clarinet and oboe players though, and it usually involved teachers selling their oboes to their students and buying new ones...
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Mike Prestage
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think there are three layers to this one...

It can just mean a horn has been played to death, without implying any theory as to how or why it's physically changed since it was new.

It can imply an assumption that horns primarily deteriorate via some process which happens faster when they're used by 'stronger' players. I'm confident that this isn't true but I doubt the idea originated with anyone hoping to sell more instruments - IMO it's more likely to be folklore that developed amongst brass players.

Or, it can imply a belief in some process by which horns can subtly change in response to how they're played, independently of the mundane ways in which they deteriorate. A 'blown out' horn would be one that's been used for to long by someone who plays in a way that has a continuous negative effect on their instruments. Personally I'm very sceptical of ideas like this but there are people out there who take them seriously. There's a story about a very well-known trombonist who supposedly offered a service to correct intonation issues on people's horns by playing them until the pitch centres of the problem notes changed!

Divitt Trumpets, I think this expression in relation to brass instruments is very much a British thing, and some of the beliefs associated with it probably are too.

Mike
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HaveTrumpetWillTravel
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've heard about it primarily in terms of compression--that wear on valves (and maybe slides, receiver, etc.) make a trumpet lose compression and play less well. I think there's probably debate over whether most played out trumpets can be brought back to new or better than new quality.
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p76
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you think about the pistons on a trumpet like the pistons in your car engine, then take the analogy further. If you have ever driven a car that really needs a re-hone and some new rings, you can tell.

Same with horns, although they have to be really worn to get that far. My YTR634 is getting there - need to use thicker valve oil on the old girl, and I can feel that it's getting "sloppier" when playing fast passages. I can do a direct contrast with my Kanstul 700, which I bought new and is noticeably crisper.

I have played an Olds Mendez that a friend of mine owned and wanted to sell - it truly was "blown out" - virtually no compression in the valves-slides, and I think some rot in the leadpipe....really not pleasant to play. For most horns it wouldn't be economic to bring them back to good nick I would have thought, but I'm not really up-to-date with repair costs.

Anyway, my 2c worth.

Cheers,
Roger
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abontrumpet
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In addition to all the wear and tear comments, the receiver being worn is also a big deal. I see people twist, slam, and scrape their mouthpiece into the receiver. This would effect the overall responsiveness of the horn (gap etc).

For everybody reading this, put your mouthpiece in gingerly.
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dr_trumpet
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A dear friend and tremendous studio and first call player I knew would buy a new Bb trumpet every seven years or so, regardless of how much he liked what he had. His belief was that in seven years, the trumpet, professionally played as much as he did, was for lack of a better term, "played out". He would sell the old horns or trade them in, as he didn't want them around to go back to once he was done with them. He didn't even take them on the trip to try new horns as he felt it would somehow influence his new horn selection. I respect his opinion completely, and it worked for him.

I have several horns that are far older than that. I play them almost every day! And they still work great for me. A good used horn, if mechanically sound and checked periodically by a fine repairperson, can for me last a long time. I am not contradicting anything said above, nor anything anyone else has said.

My sole point is to say that great players can differ on their views on instruments and still be great players. That's what makes music so great!

AL
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