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Constellation C trumpets?



 
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Brassnose
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:13 pm    Post subject: Constellation C trumpets? Reply with quote

I just came across a Constellation „The PRO Constellation“ (that’s the only thing it says on the bell) in C. Never heard of these before - what’s up with them? Worth a try?
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Andy Cooper
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 4:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not aware of Conn making a Connstellation trumpet in C. They made a Victor in C. T They made a UMI Conn Heritage in C that was pretty good.

Just checking - it says Constellation rather than Connstellation?
If that's the case, then it would not be manufactured by Conn.

If it is in a local store - sure - it's worth a try. If you have to pay shipping 2 ways to try it and return - probably not.
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delano
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems that there has been a Conn 51B Connstellation trumpet in C.
Not an Elkhart Conn of course.

https://brassgurus.com/products/conn-51b-c-trumpet
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Brassnose
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alright, here is the link to the ad:
https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/g-c-conn-trompete-in-c/1737458491-74-4867?utm_source=copyToPasteboard&utm_campaign=socialbuttons&utm_medium=social&utm_content=app_ios

It does say Connstellation, that was a typo on my side. I am not sure it really resembles the one that is linked above. I don’t need a C trumpet right now, I was just surprised that Conn C trumpets seem to exist, I guess, because no one ever talks about them.
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dr_trumpet
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andy Cooper wrote:
I'm not aware of Conn making a Connstellation trumpet in C. They made a Victor in C. T They made a UMI Conn Heritage in C that was pretty good.

Just checking - it says Constellation rather than Connstellation?
If that's the case, then it would not be manufactured by Conn.

If it is in a local store - sure - it's worth a try. If you have to pay shipping 2 ways to try it and return - probably not.


They also made the Vintage One C trumpet, which was an outstanding trumpet in its day. One of my former students owns one and played it in the MAYO Youth Orchestra and later the Hendricks Symphony.

The engraving changes after "Conn"...the "stellation" is smaller.

The case looks like a Conn Vintage One case. The trumpet is missing its bottom valve caps. The larger first valve slide spacing is consistent with other Cleveland products such as the more modern King trumpets and some other Conns. I think the horn is a legit Conn...
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delano
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There was the 'Glantz' model:

https://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/Conn14B1949image.html

There were more C trumpets by Conn, the lb 14B and some multi key horns like the 18B Glantz.

I still think your horn is a 51B, the details are right, reciever, the widening at the fingerhook, the first slide hook, the brace in the tuning slide and even the second slide angle, not just 90 degrees.

And what is a 'legit' Conn, the 5 prefix in the serial number indicates an after 2000 Conn. Legit?


Last edited by delano on Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:47 am; edited 1 time in total
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dr_trumpet
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

delano wrote:
There was the 'Glantz' model:

https://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/Conn14B1949image.html


That particular Glantz model now is mine. Chris sold it to me in the spring, and while it is a Conn, there is no resemblance in any way of the above horn to the one we are trying to figure out!

It is a great horn, though...has lineage all the way back to Glantz himself.
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delano
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't mean to say that it was a Glantz horn, only some family characteristics.
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dr_trumpet
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

delano wrote:
I didn't mean to say that it was a Glantz horn, only some family characteristics.


Gotcha! No worries! And you are spot on!
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Mike Prestage
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dr_trumpet wrote:
They also made the Vintage One C trumpet, which was an outstanding trumpet in its day.

'The PRO Connstellation' seems like it could have been thought up by the same person as the 'Vintage One' name!

Mike
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Brassnose
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I realized the bottom caps were missing. The text of the ad says „the valve caps are of course included“, which makes me wonder if they don’t fit or the threads are bad or something.

@ AL: A while ago I did in fact test a Vintage One and thought it was a very good horn. Its sound is broader than my Bach but a very playable and nice horn indeed. Liked the short stroke valves, too. Funny thing is I thought the 52B is the even better horn at about 2/3 of the price.
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delano
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike Prestage wrote:
dr_trumpet wrote:
They also made the Vintage One C trumpet, which was an outstanding trumpet in its day.

'The PRO Connstellation' seems like it could have been thought up by the same person as the 'Vintage One' name!

Mike


This must be "Deep Psychology".
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dr_trumpet
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brassnose wrote:
Yeah, I realized the bottom caps were missing. The text of the ad says „the valve caps are of course included“, which makes me wonder if they don’t fit or the threads are bad or something.

@ AL: A while ago I did in fact test a Vintage One and thought it was a very good horn. Its sound is broader than my Bach but a very playable and nice horn indeed. Liked the short stroke valves, too. Funny thing is I thought the 52B is the even better horn at about 2/3 of the price.


Interesting...and I mean that sincerely as I've never played a 52B....but it appears I need to get my hands on one!

Al
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Brassnose
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, that was a funny coincidence. Just before COVID hit, I had the chance to visit one of the large brass retailers, FMB, here in Germany and basically spent a day testing horns. The winners were two Bachs and a Vintage One in lacquered yellow brass. Adams, different Yamahas and B&S plus a few I can’t remember didn’t quite make it.

Just a few days later I mentioned this to my teacher and he handed me his 52B that happened to lie around on a shelf. I found it played even more easily than the V1 and for big band and the like it certainly has the sound. The V1 is a little broader soundwise.
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plankowner110
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

United Musical Instruments did indeed make a Bb trumpet in the late 1980s or early 1990s called the PRO Connstellation. This was stamped on the side of the bell above where you grip the horn. The word PRO was in block letters and the Connstellation was in script. This was a horn basically patterned off the UMI Silver Flair (not the professional HN White Co. King 1055T Silver Flair.) The PRO Connstellation was a totally different instrument in design and quality from the legendary C. G. Conn Ltd 38B and 36B Connstellations.

The PRO Connstellation was an intermediate line trumpet behind the Conn Heritage professional model, and UMI was just trying to capitalize on the famous Connstellation name, which Conn-Selmer did again later with the 52B (Bb) and 51B (C) Connstellations.
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Brassnose
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great, this exactly how the engraving looks like. So it probably is the C variety of these horns. Thanks!
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Mike Prestage
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plankowner, good to hear the background to this horn. It seems like the UMI product range was pretty chaotic but that's hardly unusual for big instrument making groups after all!

The King Legend is another interesting Bb horn with similar DNA to the Vintage One. (There aren't many around so if there ever was a C version it would be outright rare.)

delano wrote:

This must be "Deep Psychology".


Not at all, just a passing observation on two trumpet model names that IMO are both awful in the same contrived, gimmicky way. (Not a criticism of the horns themselves of course.)

Mike
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Brassnose
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But then again how does one conceive trumpet names ? I am more of the rational type and would probably just number them but having a trumpet model „Clifford“ and „Claudio“ would also be cool. Or name them after your favorite veggies (the „Tomato“ with a copper bell) or meat (the „Ribeye Steak“ with a big beefy and meaty sound …). Sorry for digressing but it was a long and crazy week
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F.E. Olds Nut
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I owned a Conn 86B "The PRO Connstellation" C trumpet several years ago, which was the generic UMI reverse leadpipe C trumpet at the time. The inside of the bell also had an engraved garland, which looked a little tacky. They were decent horns, but nothing spectacular.
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