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djc2093 New Member
Joined: 12 May 2018 Posts: 5 Location: Fishers
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Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 1:27 pm Post subject: Struggling to get any note out |
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I've been playing trumpet for years. All of a sudden I am struggling to even get a note out. I noticed this a couple weeks ago during warm-up. After a long warm-up it's somewhat better, but something is definitely wrong. The sensation feels like something is clogging my horn up, or like my lips and mouth are dry; but neither is the case. The only thing that I have done different recently is I started back playing lead trumpet in a group after the pandemic lay-off. I practiced all the way through the lay-off, but not on lead trumpet material. Has anybody seen or experienced anything like this before? Thanks. |
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TrumpetMD Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Oct 2008 Posts: 2415 Location: Maryland
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Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 3:37 pm Post subject: Re: Struggling to get any note out |
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djc2093 wrote: | I've been playing trumpet for years. All of a sudden I am struggling to even get a note out. I noticed this a couple weeks ago during warm-up. After a long warm-up it's somewhat better, but something is definitely wrong. The sensation feels like something is clogging my horn up, or like my lips and mouth are dry; but neither is the case. The only thing that I have done different recently is I started back playing lead trumpet in a group after the pandemic lay-off. I practiced all the way through the lay-off, but not on lead trumpet material. Has anybody seen or experienced anything like this before? Thanks. |
Sorry to hear this. Yes, we've seen this before. And what you're describing is not uncommon. It sounds like embouchure over-use. You've likely over-extended yourself by playing lead trumpet, which you weren't used to doing. You've injured your embouchure, and those muscles needs to heal before you damage something permanently. You need to rest your chops, maybe for a day or two, maybe longer, and then slowly get back into playing.
Mike _________________ Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns. |
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Goby Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Jun 2017 Posts: 650
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Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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Have you checked your horn to make sure there isn't a valve sitting backwards or any blockages of the tubes? |
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deleted_user_687c31b New Member
Joined: 03 Apr 1996 Posts: 0
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Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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Funnily enough, I experienced something similar to what you describe just last week. My orchestra had 2 informal outdoors rehearsals 2 weekends in a row. I was quite excited to start playing again, so I signed up for the full 4 hours. When I started playing again after that, it felt very similar to what you are describing. My trumpet felt very stuffy, almost blocked, my lips were stiff and wouldn't vibrate unless I used a lot more air than I was used to. I removed and oiled all the valves, cleaned the instrument, tried different mouthpieces and whatnot, but nothing seemed to work. I finally realized it was my embouchure when I switched to another instrument and noticed it had the same issues. After a few days of light practice, with focus on rebuilding proper technique again and making sure not to overdo it, fortunately things have gone back on track, but it took nearly a week of frustration and despair to get there.
I don't have much actual advice to give you, other than what Mike already mentioned, but I understand what you're going through, and I hope you'll be able to fix it soon. Don't give in to frustration by trying to force your way into properly playing, that may just have an adverse effect. Take care and good luck! |
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GeorgeB Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Apr 2016 Posts: 1063 Location: New Glasgow, Nova Scotia
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Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 2:04 am Post subject: |
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It is exactly like Mike said, embouchure over-use. It happened to me after a difficult concert just prior to the first Covid shut-down. On the advice of a doctor who plays in our band, I played nothing for two weeks and for the first few days I applied an ice pack to the chops three times a day. I was 83 at that time and was lucky because I could have done a lot more damage. These days I know when enough is enough and I lay the horn down _________________ GeorgeB
1960s King Super 20 Silversonic
2016 Manchester Brass Custom
1938-39 Olds Recording
1942 Buescher 400 Bb trumpet
1952 Selmer Paris 21 B
1999 Conn Vintage One B flat trumpet
2020 Getzen 490 Bb
1962 Conn Victor 5A cornet |
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djc2093 New Member
Joined: 12 May 2018 Posts: 5 Location: Fishers
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Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 3:45 am Post subject: |
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Thank you everyone for the good advice. i suspected overuse as the result of returning to lead play was the culprit; and you confirmed it. I laid off yesterday; and will also take off today. Maybe apply ice as suggested; and monitor myself from day-to-day by trying petal tones. Thanks again George B, hibidogrulez, Goby, and TrumpetMD! |
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Billy B Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 6130 Location: Des Moines
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Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:08 am Post subject: |
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MOVING TO SATURDAYS!
I'll be conducting a ZOOM session this SATURDAY 6/26 7:00am CDT.
This would be a great introduction to the William Adam routine as taught to me in 1982 by Mr. Adam.
bill bergren is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting.
Topic: bill bergren's Personal Meeting Room
Join Zoom Meeting
https://us02web.zoom.us/j/9854582581
Meeting ID: 985 458 2581 _________________ Bill Bergren |
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Seymor B Fudd Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2015 Posts: 1469 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 6:46 am Post subject: |
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djc 2093! I side with all the other posters: There is every indication your predicament amounts to an "overuse syndrom".
However, having been there suffered that myself only a few additional comments:
1)what was the state of your embouchure prior to this? A genuine healthy one - the result of lessons? Or?
In my case no formal lessons until after I was "hit"; I began playing 1957 and did so rather successfully (as an amateur) up til 2013. Front row brass band; lead chair big bands.
My point of view: this is a crisis - sometimes we have such a one coming....so scrutinize the state of your playing! Taking lessons helped me tremendously (=in essence lack of enough air meant too much effort) - then I walked down the BE way but that´s an other story.
2)Rest might be needed but carefully re-building might also be needed.
Don´t know your point of origin. Could be your ailment is an isolated occurrence.
3)I got generous help by Lucinda Lewis ( http://www.embouchures.com/ )
Her approach might provide some clues as to what happened and what to do.
Good luck! I went in to dispair - fearing my days as a trumpeter had come to an end.
They weren´t! In fact I came out on the other side better than ever (might be related to the prior default state.. ) _________________ Cornets: mp 143D3/ DW Ultra 1,5 C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Yamaha YCR6330II
Getzen Eterna Eb
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC Schilke 14B
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970)
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1974) |
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krell1960 Veteran Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2020 Posts: 148
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Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:31 am Post subject: |
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Check your mouthpiece for fuzz? But overuse is also possible. |
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djc2093 New Member
Joined: 12 May 2018 Posts: 5 Location: Fishers
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Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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I was having no embouchure problems prior to this incident. I forgot to mention that i tried a different horn; with the same results. I am inclined to agree with the consensus - - - that it is the result of overuse. The difficulties coincided with me resuming lead play after over a year of not regularly practicing in that range. I will, however follow-up with the resources recommended, and take remedial actions such as rest and slow rebuild. Thanks again. |
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Brad361 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 7080 Location: Houston, TX.
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Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:10 am Post subject: |
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As others mentioned, to me that REALLY sounds like overuse. Happened to me once while I was practicing pit orchestra material, took weeks to subside.
REST…..or weeks can become months.
Brad _________________ When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8914 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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Sure it might be over-use. But more fundamentally your playing demands have altered too abruptly and chops rarely like that. I'd let yourself heal then either slowly step up your practice routine or mellow your lead playing a bit to give yourself time to adjust. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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djc2093 New Member
Joined: 12 May 2018 Posts: 5 Location: Fishers
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Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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I did a little check today - - - just a couple of notes to guage if anything was different after laying off for a few days. My tone was produced without effort, and there was no air in my sound! I think I am on the road back; but didn't push it. Will give it a couple more days before beginning to slowly build back up to where i need to be to do my job in the band. I am relieved to know that the damage is apparently not going to be a chronic matter. Thank you everyone for your recommendations and support in helping me work through a situation that I might have otherwise not navigated better. |
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deleted_user_687c31b New Member
Joined: 03 Apr 1996 Posts: 0
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Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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djc2093 wrote: | I did a little check today - - - just a couple of notes to guage if anything was different after laying off for a few days. My tone was produced without effort, and there was no air in my sound! I think I am on the road back; but didn't push it. Will give it a couple more days before beginning to slowly build back up to where i need to be to do my job in the band. I am relieved to know that the damage is apparently not going to be a chronic matter. |
Good to read that. Hope you'll get back to regular playing again soon. |
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GeorgeB Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Apr 2016 Posts: 1063 Location: New Glasgow, Nova Scotia
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:35 am Post subject: |
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djc2093 wrote: | I did a little check today - - - just a couple of notes to guage if anything was different after laying off for a few days. My tone was produced without effort, and there was no air in my sound! I think I am on the road back; but didn't push it. Will give it a couple more days before beginning to slowly build back up to where i need to be to do my job in the band. I am relieved to know that the damage is apparently not going to be a chronic matter. |
That is good news, sir. And it is wise not to push it.
Good luck on your recovery,
George _________________ GeorgeB
1960s King Super 20 Silversonic
2016 Manchester Brass Custom
1938-39 Olds Recording
1942 Buescher 400 Bb trumpet
1952 Selmer Paris 21 B
1999 Conn Vintage One B flat trumpet
2020 Getzen 490 Bb
1962 Conn Victor 5A cornet |
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michaelbarth Regular Member
Joined: 14 Nov 2015 Posts: 16 Location: Toronto
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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I don't have anything substantive to add to the previous posts - I think they are right on regarding over playing and the need for rest. Just wanted to say thanks for posting - situations like that are nerve wracking at best and can be difficult to share publicly. I went through a similar situation a few months ago as a result of doing a lot of practicing on baroque trumpet (pretty much all of which is in the upper register) while continuing to frequently play into the upper register on modern trumpet. The sensations you described are almost exactly what I was feeling, and the thing that really threw me was that my lips didn't feel injured or swollen. They just didn't want to vibrate. I was worried about embouchure damage or dystonia, but I think my muscles had gotten so tired they couldn't support an embouchure. I have since taken a more balanced approach to practicing in the upper register, incorporating more rest between sessions, and things have gotten back to normal and I am deeply relieved! Thanks again for posting. _________________ www.michaelbarth.ca
www.softringmutes.com |
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JetJaguar Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Nov 2006 Posts: 1518 Location: Vancouver, BC
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Robert P Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Feb 2013 Posts: 2596
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:17 pm Post subject: Re: Struggling to get any note out |
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djc2093 wrote: | I've been playing trumpet for years. All of a sudden I am struggling to even get a note out. I noticed this a couple weeks ago during warm-up. After a long warm-up it's somewhat better, but something is definitely wrong. The sensation feels like something is clogging my horn up, or like my lips and mouth are dry; but neither is the case. The only thing that I have done different recently is I started back playing lead trumpet in a group after the pandemic lay-off. I practiced all the way through the lay-off, but not on lead trumpet material. Has anybody seen or experienced anything like this before? Thanks. |
The only time I ever experience something like that is if I play around with a trombone for an extended period first - but it causes a definite physical change in the lips, they look fatter and feel like a couple of inner tubes with an odd burn/tingle feel. I have fairly full lips to begin with and I think they're more susceptible to swelling.
When you have this issue does setting the mouthpiece on your lips feel different than when you don't have this issue? _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Flugel |
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djc2093 New Member
Joined: 12 May 2018 Posts: 5 Location: Fishers
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Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2021 5:55 am Post subject: |
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I laid-off for six days, and on day seven for the next three days I simply did LP buzz, MP buzz, and petals for about an hour each day. Things seemed to be coming along well. But I noticed that on the third day the difficulties were creeping back in. It seems that the damage was more chronic than I realized. Looks like recovery is going to be a lot slower than I hoped, and I probably should lay-off completely for a while longer. But I guess it's time to stop "self medicating" and seek professional help. Bummer... Thanks again for all your good advice. |
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Billy B Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 6130 Location: Des Moines
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Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2021 6:10 am Post subject: |
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djc2093 wrote: | I laid-off for six days, and on day seven for the next three days I simply did LP buzz, MP buzz, and petals for about an hour each day. Things seemed to be coming along well. But I noticed that on the third day the difficulties were creeping back in. It seems that the damage was more chronic than I realized. Looks like recovery is going to be a lot slower than I hoped, and I probably should lay-off completely for a while longer. But I guess it's time to stop "self medicating" and seek professional help. Bummer... Thanks again for all your good advice. |
" LP buzz, MP buzz, and petals for about an hour each day"
This would screw up anyone. You need a sensible practice routine.
I'll be conducting a ZOOM session this SATURDAY 7/3 7:00am CDT.
This would be a great introduction to the William Adam routine as taught to me in 1982 by Mr. Adam.
bill bergren is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting.
Topic: bill bergren's Personal Meeting Room
Join Zoom Meeting
https://us02web.zoom.us/j/9854582581
Meeting ID: 985 458 2581 _________________ Bill Bergren |
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