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Struggling to get any note out


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djc2093
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 1:27 pm    Post subject: Struggling to get any note out Reply with quote

I've been playing trumpet for years. All of a sudden I am struggling to even get a note out. I noticed this a couple weeks ago during warm-up. After a long warm-up it's somewhat better, but something is definitely wrong. The sensation feels like something is clogging my horn up, or like my lips and mouth are dry; but neither is the case. The only thing that I have done different recently is I started back playing lead trumpet in a group after the pandemic lay-off. I practiced all the way through the lay-off, but not on lead trumpet material. Has anybody seen or experienced anything like this before? Thanks.
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TrumpetMD
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 3:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Struggling to get any note out Reply with quote

djc2093 wrote:
I've been playing trumpet for years. All of a sudden I am struggling to even get a note out. I noticed this a couple weeks ago during warm-up. After a long warm-up it's somewhat better, but something is definitely wrong. The sensation feels like something is clogging my horn up, or like my lips and mouth are dry; but neither is the case. The only thing that I have done different recently is I started back playing lead trumpet in a group after the pandemic lay-off. I practiced all the way through the lay-off, but not on lead trumpet material. Has anybody seen or experienced anything like this before? Thanks.

Sorry to hear this. Yes, we've seen this before. And what you're describing is not uncommon. It sounds like embouchure over-use. You've likely over-extended yourself by playing lead trumpet, which you weren't used to doing. You've injured your embouchure, and those muscles needs to heal before you damage something permanently. You need to rest your chops, maybe for a day or two, maybe longer, and then slowly get back into playing.

Mike
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Goby
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you checked your horn to make sure there isn't a valve sitting backwards or any blockages of the tubes?
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deleted_user_687c31b
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Funnily enough, I experienced something similar to what you describe just last week. My orchestra had 2 informal outdoors rehearsals 2 weekends in a row. I was quite excited to start playing again, so I signed up for the full 4 hours. When I started playing again after that, it felt very similar to what you are describing. My trumpet felt very stuffy, almost blocked, my lips were stiff and wouldn't vibrate unless I used a lot more air than I was used to. I removed and oiled all the valves, cleaned the instrument, tried different mouthpieces and whatnot, but nothing seemed to work. I finally realized it was my embouchure when I switched to another instrument and noticed it had the same issues. After a few days of light practice, with focus on rebuilding proper technique again and making sure not to overdo it, fortunately things have gone back on track, but it took nearly a week of frustration and despair to get there.

I don't have much actual advice to give you, other than what Mike already mentioned, but I understand what you're going through, and I hope you'll be able to fix it soon. Don't give in to frustration by trying to force your way into properly playing, that may just have an adverse effect. Take care and good luck!
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GeorgeB
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is exactly like Mike said, embouchure over-use. It happened to me after a difficult concert just prior to the first Covid shut-down. On the advice of a doctor who plays in our band, I played nothing for two weeks and for the first few days I applied an ice pack to the chops three times a day. I was 83 at that time and was lucky because I could have done a lot more damage. These days I know when enough is enough and I lay the horn down
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djc2093
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 3:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you everyone for the good advice. i suspected overuse as the result of returning to lead play was the culprit; and you confirmed it. I laid off yesterday; and will also take off today. Maybe apply ice as suggested; and monitor myself from day-to-day by trying petal tones. Thanks again George B, hibidogrulez, Goby, and TrumpetMD!
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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This would be a great introduction to the William Adam routine as taught to me in 1982 by Mr. Adam.
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Seymor B Fudd
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

djc 2093! I side with all the other posters: There is every indication your predicament amounts to an "overuse syndrom".
However, having been there suffered that myself only a few additional comments:
1)what was the state of your embouchure prior to this? A genuine healthy one - the result of lessons? Or?
In my case no formal lessons until after I was "hit"; I began playing 1957 and did so rather successfully (as an amateur) up til 2013. Front row brass band; lead chair big bands.
My point of view: this is a crisis - sometimes we have such a one coming....so scrutinize the state of your playing! Taking lessons helped me tremendously (=in essence lack of enough air meant too much effort) - then I walked down the BE way but that´s an other story.
2)Rest might be needed but carefully re-building might also be needed.
Don´t know your point of origin. Could be your ailment is an isolated occurrence.
3)I got generous help by Lucinda Lewis ( http://www.embouchures.com/ )
Her approach might provide some clues as to what happened and what to do.
Good luck! I went in to dispair - fearing my days as a trumpeter had come to an end.
They weren´t! In fact I came out on the other side better than ever (might be related to the prior default state.. )
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krell1960
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check your mouthpiece for fuzz? But overuse is also possible.
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djc2093
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was having no embouchure problems prior to this incident. I forgot to mention that i tried a different horn; with the same results. I am inclined to agree with the consensus - - - that it is the result of overuse. The difficulties coincided with me resuming lead play after over a year of not regularly practicing in that range. I will, however follow-up with the resources recommended, and take remedial actions such as rest and slow rebuild. Thanks again.
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Brad361
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As others mentioned, to me that REALLY sounds like overuse. Happened to me once while I was practicing pit orchestra material, took weeks to subside.

REST…..or weeks can become months.

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cheiden
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure it might be over-use. But more fundamentally your playing demands have altered too abruptly and chops rarely like that. I'd let yourself heal then either slowly step up your practice routine or mellow your lead playing a bit to give yourself time to adjust.
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djc2093
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did a little check today - - - just a couple of notes to guage if anything was different after laying off for a few days. My tone was produced without effort, and there was no air in my sound! I think I am on the road back; but didn't push it. Will give it a couple more days before beginning to slowly build back up to where i need to be to do my job in the band. I am relieved to know that the damage is apparently not going to be a chronic matter. Thank you everyone for your recommendations and support in helping me work through a situation that I might have otherwise not navigated better.
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deleted_user_687c31b
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

djc2093 wrote:
I did a little check today - - - just a couple of notes to guage if anything was different after laying off for a few days. My tone was produced without effort, and there was no air in my sound! I think I am on the road back; but didn't push it. Will give it a couple more days before beginning to slowly build back up to where i need to be to do my job in the band. I am relieved to know that the damage is apparently not going to be a chronic matter.

Good to read that. Hope you'll get back to regular playing again soon.
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GeorgeB
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

djc2093 wrote:
I did a little check today - - - just a couple of notes to guage if anything was different after laying off for a few days. My tone was produced without effort, and there was no air in my sound! I think I am on the road back; but didn't push it. Will give it a couple more days before beginning to slowly build back up to where i need to be to do my job in the band. I am relieved to know that the damage is apparently not going to be a chronic matter.


That is good news, sir. And it is wise not to push it.

Good luck on your recovery,
George
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michaelbarth
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't have anything substantive to add to the previous posts - I think they are right on regarding over playing and the need for rest. Just wanted to say thanks for posting - situations like that are nerve wracking at best and can be difficult to share publicly. I went through a similar situation a few months ago as a result of doing a lot of practicing on baroque trumpet (pretty much all of which is in the upper register) while continuing to frequently play into the upper register on modern trumpet. The sensations you described are almost exactly what I was feeling, and the thing that really threw me was that my lips didn't feel injured or swollen. They just didn't want to vibrate. I was worried about embouchure damage or dystonia, but I think my muscles had gotten so tired they couldn't support an embouchure. I have since taken a more balanced approach to practicing in the upper register, incorporating more rest between sessions, and things have gotten back to normal and I am deeply relieved! Thanks again for posting.
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JetJaguar
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's happened to me once or twice. Lasted about a week. Its like my lips were stiff. It just went away in a week. I had to perform during it, and it wasn't good. Here's one discussion of something similar https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=61444&sid=7e9059bd359d14e48fb8a106a51e207a
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Robert P
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Struggling to get any note out Reply with quote

djc2093 wrote:
I've been playing trumpet for years. All of a sudden I am struggling to even get a note out. I noticed this a couple weeks ago during warm-up. After a long warm-up it's somewhat better, but something is definitely wrong. The sensation feels like something is clogging my horn up, or like my lips and mouth are dry; but neither is the case. The only thing that I have done different recently is I started back playing lead trumpet in a group after the pandemic lay-off. I practiced all the way through the lay-off, but not on lead trumpet material. Has anybody seen or experienced anything like this before? Thanks.

The only time I ever experience something like that is if I play around with a trombone for an extended period first - but it causes a definite physical change in the lips, they look fatter and feel like a couple of inner tubes with an odd burn/tingle feel. I have fairly full lips to begin with and I think they're more susceptible to swelling.

When you have this issue does setting the mouthpiece on your lips feel different than when you don't have this issue?
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djc2093
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2021 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I laid-off for six days, and on day seven for the next three days I simply did LP buzz, MP buzz, and petals for about an hour each day. Things seemed to be coming along well. But I noticed that on the third day the difficulties were creeping back in. It seems that the damage was more chronic than I realized. Looks like recovery is going to be a lot slower than I hoped, and I probably should lay-off completely for a while longer. But I guess it's time to stop "self medicating" and seek professional help. Bummer... Thanks again for all your good advice.
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Billy B
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2021 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

djc2093 wrote:
I laid-off for six days, and on day seven for the next three days I simply did LP buzz, MP buzz, and petals for about an hour each day. Things seemed to be coming along well. But I noticed that on the third day the difficulties were creeping back in. It seems that the damage was more chronic than I realized. Looks like recovery is going to be a lot slower than I hoped, and I probably should lay-off completely for a while longer. But I guess it's time to stop "self medicating" and seek professional help. Bummer... Thanks again for all your good advice.


" LP buzz, MP buzz, and petals for about an hour each day"
This would screw up anyone. You need a sensible practice routine.

I'll be conducting a ZOOM session this SATURDAY 7/3 7:00am CDT.
This would be a great introduction to the William Adam routine as taught to me in 1982 by Mr. Adam.
bill bergren is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting.
Topic: bill bergren's Personal Meeting Room
Join Zoom Meeting
https://us02web.zoom.us/j/9854582581
Meeting ID: 985 458 2581
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