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switching pieces for small V cup players



 
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TrumpetIsaac
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Joined: 06 Jun 2020
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:51 pm    Post subject: switching pieces for small V cup players Reply with quote

I have recently discovered that a slight V bowl or a straight V with a smaller rim diameter is close to ideal for me for lead trumpet playing. In the past I have always switched between a shallower cup and a deeper cup with identical rims in the .64 diameter, but have found that the small V cup gives me much more support and literally increases my range a P5th.

I've been playing on the Roger Ingram vintage Maynard recently and really liking it. Curious about what people do to get a good respectable classical sound without losing so much support when moving away from the V shape with a high entry angle. Ideally, I want to be playing on the same rim, but I'm not so sure its possible in this scenario to get the best of both worlds both with the same rim.

any thoughts?

Isaac
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deleted_user_687c31b
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Joined: 03 Apr 1996
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not in that much detail, and (like most mouthpiece related stuff) much of it is probably personal preference. However, the lead mouthpiece I play also has a slightly smaller rim than my 'classical' mouthpiece. I find that it somehow aligns my lips slightly better (maybe the slightly smaller rim helps me avoid putting my lips in too deeply and bottoming out) and it sounds a little nicer too (for the music I use it for). When I bought it, I also tried the same cup with a rim similarly sized but I preferred the '1 size smaller'.

It doesn't give me a 5th additional range though. While it does make everything in the upper register slightly easier, I mostly got it for the change in sound (much brighter and more piercing).
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HERMOKIWI
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Joined: 24 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If a player switches to a different mouthpiece and instantaneously has range a 5th higher then the first mouthpiece was totally wrong for the player. The first mouthpiece would have been seriously stifling the player.

My point is that your range is your range. On a mouthpiece that is right for you, and there is a range of mouthpieces that fit that description, you will be able to produce your full range.

Sometimes players play a mouthpiece that is totally wrong for them because they think they're supposed to play that mouthpiece. They think the problem is them and not the fact that the mouthpiece simply doesn't fit them.

As for the sound, the mouthpiece affects the sound a lot. If you're getting a true lead/commercial sound on a mouthpiece it is going to be difficult, if not impossible, to get a classical sound on the same mouthpiece. You'd have to change your embouchure and approach a lot to be able to make such a change and you still probably wouldn't really get a purely classical sound. Messing with your embouchure is not a good thing.

If you want to produce both a true lead/commercial sound and a true classical sound you probably need two different mouthpieces.
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TrumpetIsaac
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Joined: 06 Jun 2020
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HERMOKIWI wrote:
If a player switches to a different mouthpiece and instantaneously has range a 5th higher then the first mouthpiece was totally wrong for the player. The first mouthpiece would have been seriously stifling the player.


I agree. I have always thought that way, however with this small V cup mouthpiece I've noticed interesting things...

Up until now I had always played a .64 rim diameter on all my pieces. It usually feels comfortable and efficient for everything. If I had to complain, about only 5% of the time it feels too narrow for classical and 5% of the time too wide for lead. Among rim sizes I've tried, it strikes a perfect balance to be able to have more than one mouthpiece with the same rim. I change the depth and shape of the cup for a more biting sound.

When trying the small V, two important things are different. the alpha angle is significantly higher than my GR 64Z** (commercial mouthpiece) which already has a 'high' alpha angle. and the rim is tighter at around .623. A combination of both of these things probably have given me the ridiculous support I lacked on the other pieces. I like the deeper cup of my .64 classical piece because I can play with full breaths and fill it up without getting too piercing or getting air backup, but with just enough resistance that I can still play efficiently. I like the 64Z** because it has tons of compression and fatness in the sound but its still open enough that I don't have to back way off in order to tame it. I would say it has a great fat commercial sound but lacks support I need to really scream for a long duration. It of course does that, but there's an upper limit around high G or A that takes a much greater amount of energy to get past for me.

With the .623 V cup, I have to back off a bit to control it better (it's not too tight of a backbore. I love the resistance. Nice and open with just enough support to balance the small cup), but with the refined air stream it's much easier to ascend and with around the same effort at a high F on my GR, I find myself on a piercing double high D. Still hard to find the slot sometimes, since I essentially couldn't play those notes on my other equipment and am not used to it, but the effort it takes to get in the ball park of the double register is way way less. I've never been one to give the mouthpiece credit, but the increase in efficiency with the V cup is undeniable although it is hard to control sometimes.

It would be my best guess that the very high alpha has the most to do with the efficiency. I've played some smaller diameter pieces that were somewhat similar with a bowl cup that felt like they were tighter and had more security but they didn't make anything easier. They just made the notes slot harder which I don't necessarily need.

Trying to decide what to do about it because ideally I want to have all the pieces with the same rim. If I got a piece in the .64 diameter, I'd hope that I'd still get that really nice support, but I don't know for sure. The GR does great as an all around work horse with a huge sound, but the high note jock in me wants to explore the possibility of very high alpha angle piece to use for high charts or more prolonged upper register playing without needing to go to something so much smaller and harder to control and easier to bottom out on in order to keep consistency between all my playing and still get the benefits of the V design when I want it without drastically changing the rim each time I switch mouthpieces.

Thanks for your guys' input

Isaac
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nowave
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Joined: 01 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Everyone’s different. I tried for a long time to use the same rim for everything, but I have better success using a commercial piece with a much smaller diameter than my main piece. You’ll find great players who keep the same rim, and great players who don’t. Keep an open mind and try different approaches to see what works for you.
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Richard III
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Joined: 22 May 2007
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Location: Anacortes, WA

PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nowave wrote:
Everyone’s different. I tried for a long time to use the same rim for everything, but I have better success using a commercial piece with a much smaller diameter than my main piece. You’ll find great players who keep the same rim, and great players who don’t. Keep an open mind and try different approaches to see what works for you.


Put this on a sign in your practice room.
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