New trumpet with slow valves!

Trumpet Loser · New Member Joined: 12 Aug 2020 Posts: 4

Hi there! I'm a trumpet student who recently bought himself a second hand silver 37 Bach Stradivarius. I was lucky to find a good hearted neighbor who was selling it cheap . The horn was her son's, who stopped playing when he graduated from high school 20 years ago. I actually told her that the trumpet was probably worth double the amount of money she was asking for, but for some reason, maybe because of my honesty, she kept the price the same, even when she had better offers.

Well, it was the first time I was going to own a trumpet that was not a student trumpet, I was obviously really excited. Of course, getting a Stradivarius for 600 hundred bucks, along with a number of mouthpieces, trumpet books and methods, etc. was too nice to be true, so I was (and I am) ready to invest some more money on getting it in best shape.

When I tried the horn before buying it, I didn't notice any valve sticking, since I had just oiled it. Once I was home, I cleaned the horn as best as I could (I don't think the kiddo didn't really cleaned the horn, and after 20 years of living in a closet, you can only imagine the mess inside the pipes).

Anyways, horn as clean as it can unprofessionally be, and after letting it dry and trying it for a few minutes, some valves started to get sticky and slow. Especially when I was playing high notes or playing loud. They responded better in the first octave and when playing piano.

Here are my questions:

1- Why does this happen? Is the trumpet too old? Does the air I blow mess up with the valves functioning? Does this have to do with the "compression"? (not quite sure what compression is, actually)

2- Do I need to shift my trumpet oil(I usually use Bach) into another brand, or do I need to take the horn to get fixed? Does this mean my valves need to be polished? How much does this usually cost, average?

3. Do you recommend some additional cleaning services? Chemical or ultrasound? average prices?

Bonus: if you live in the Philadelphia, PA area, what repair sites would you highly recommend?

As always, thanks a bunch from a trumpet lover who is not yet a great player.

Uberopa · Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2021 3:59 pm Post subject:

Hi
That must be pretty frustrating and disappointing after getting the instrument for such a great price.
Try the following for cleaning the valves:
Mix up a solution of one third Dawn dish detergent and two thirds white vigar.
Soak the valves for twenty minutes. Keep the valve felts dry.
Rinse the valves well.
You can also swab out the valve casings with a brush using the same solution.
Some valve oils are mentioned on this forum such as Ultrapure, T2, Monster and the old reliable Al Cass. Bach oil doesn't seem to get much play. The stuff that I got with my new Bach smelled awful.
If this doesn't work the best thing to do I would suggest is to get the instrument ultrasonically cleaned. A lot of techs will do a valve alignment at the same time. You saved a butt ton of money on the purchase price. Another couple of hundred to get the instrument cleaned up is a great investment.
Happy Canada Day!

Crazy Finn · Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2021 7:14 pm Post subject:

Just take it in for a cleaning at your local repair shop. They've got methods, equipment and skill that you don't.

You got your trumpet for cheap. Spend a bit, get it working right.

I'd skip the vinegar. I've done this with some valves and they never come out quite right for me. I know the shop might have stronger acid than that, but they also can clean it off better than I can at home.

Best valve oils, in my (fairly lengthy) experience are:

- Yamaha Synthetic (3 weights)
- Hetman (3 weights in the valve oil, lots of lubrication options)
- Ultra Pure (also 3 weights)

Start with the regular, and if that works, go with that. If it's working fine but you need faster (unlikely with used horn) than go light. If it's not working quite right, need something thicker, then go with the heavier one (Ultra Pure Black Label, Yamaha Vintage, etc).
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blbaumgarn · Heavyweight Member Joined: 26 Jul 2017 Posts: 705

The chem clean option is very good. the suggestion of dawn and vinegar could also be very good. REMEMBER, there are only two things that can affect the inner workings of a trumpet by building up in there. 1. Water soluble substances, 2. Non water soluble substances. If there is a build up of some kind you may not be able to clean it with valve oil. I hope that you get it figured out because you got a horn that was spared many years of used sitting in the closet, too. A good tech can do the chem clean for you and bring it up to snuff and every penny you spend will be worth it. Good Luck
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LittleRusty · Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2021 9:36 pm Post subject: Re: new trumpet with slow valves

JayKosta · Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 4:21 am Post subject:

I suggest doing this FIRST - it's inexpensive, easy, and won't make any permanent changes if it doesn't work.

I would NOT have the instrument cleaned or worked-on at a shop unless you are very confident of the person doing the work - too many stories about undesirable 'changes' happening after a 'deep cleaning', etc.

Buy a bottle of Mineral Oil from drug store (unscented, just straight mineral oil). Wipe the oil off the pistons and use finger tip to verify the surface is smooth - if not smooth gently use a green plastic dish washing pad (not steel wool!) on the surface, and then rinse & dry.
Use a Q-tip to apply a few drops of mineral oil to the piston, and spread the oil around with finger tip. Reinstall the piston, it will be too sluggish, so add a drop or two of the Bach oil to get good valve action. I use this method and have gotten good results. Mineral Oil can also be used straight on the slides.
_________________
Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.

zaferis · Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 4:41 am Post subject:

I'm going to suggest that you may be squeezing or pulling enough to put pressure on the valves or casing in such a manner to cause the valves to hang up. (only happens with range and loudness). i.e. Poor right hand position, that puts enough in a directin other than straight up & down. In this case cleaning or different lubes won't help.

With an older trumpet the valves could be worn enough to be more sensative to this.
Valve tolerance is pretty close... it doesn't take much.

I suggest the first step is taking the trumpet to a good repair tech to clean and evaluate the valves.
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huntman10 · Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 10:45 am Post subject:

I am going to vote the culprit in the valve problem is old goo that had not been totally removed from the initial "light cleaning" but had been loosened and hydrated by the washing and moved into the pistons by more enthusiastic playing. I would suggest either picking up a few essential cleaning items (bore brush,or "snake", valve and mouthpiece
brush, valve cleaning rod with cheesecloth or old t shirt material, leadpipe brush, etc.) and developing a more effective cleaning protocol (we should all have a more involved relation with our "trumpet friends") or find that trusted repair shop and have them clean AND ALIGN that new best friend.
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deleted_user_687c31b · New Member Joined: 03 Apr 1996 Posts: 0

plankowner110 · Heavyweight Member Joined: 12 Jun 2003 Posts: 3620

Trumpet Loser,

Take your Bach to your local, reputable full service in-house repair facility and have an ultrasonic cleaning done on it. (The old fashioned chemical cleaning is way too harsh, especially if done by an inexperienced person.) You would be amazed at the the amount of microscopic crud that comes out of a supposedly clean trumpet. You can actually see it pouring like smoke out of valve casings, mouthpipes, and slide tubes if the ultrasonic tank water is clear. I do ultrasonics all day long on both pro and student instruments and can attest to the positive results.

There may be a variety of other issues that can cause a piston to be sluggish or stick, but a skilled repair tech will be able to fix that. Start with the ultrasonic cleaning. Your Bach Strad is worth the small investment.

Also, get a new user name. There are no losers here on Trumpet Herald! Good luck to you.
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