Joined: 14 Aug 2009 Posts: 300 Location: Charlotte, NC
Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 2:44 pm Post subject: Orchestral Pieces under $100?
Hello everyone!
In the video I released today, I talk about 4 orchestral trumpet mouthpieces that you can actually get for less than $100 off the shelf.
For whatever reason, in order to get "orchestral" modifications like a larger throat or backbore, you often either have to buy premium mouthpieces that are priced for professionals or you have to buy stock mouthpieces and pay to have them altered - which can really add up... but there are high quality *new* options for both trumpet students and professionals to experiment with while trying to find the perfect orchestral mouthpiece for their needs.
The pieces I talk about are -
Curry BC Series - Many rim diameters, B cup, 24 throat, Schmidt bb - $65
Bach Symphonic Series - all cup designs come with 22, 24, 25, or 26 throat with a 24 backbore - $75
Stork Vacchiano Series - huge range of sizes, throats, and backbores, any combo for $86
Yamaha Signature Series - I only mention the Hooten, Gould, Sullivan, and Hagstrom though I know there are other designs, Aubier, Damrow, Franks? - $50
Does anybody here know of any more mouthpieces like this for under $100? I've heard from a friend about the Denis Wick Maurice Murphy MM2C?
By the way, I also mention in this video how one of the best ways to get great orchestral pieces for good prices is to buy used, especially the Trumpetherald marketplace! Thanks to this community for selling me so many great pieces over the years.
Nice one man! I gotta fangirl for Pickett mouthpieces. Love them. I play Pickett stuff on almost everything. Their one-piece mouthpieces are like $80-90, and there are a lot of options.
Shires also has a good line of what are essentially Mt. Vernon copies, priced at $70. They're not as customizable as the Pickett mouthpieces(yet?), but still good bang for your buck. _________________ Josh Coffey
Milano Music Center
Joined: 13 Apr 2004 Posts: 992 Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:54 pm Post subject:
The Wick Murphy series is unique, in that it is a symphonic mouthpiece designed for Bb trumpet. I'm sure someone has or can use it on a C trumpet, but Murphy never played a C.
They have a somewhat shallower cup than say a Bach 1 1/2 C, the rim is wide, and the alpha angle is a bit higher.
From what I can tell, it seems to be popular for Pops/crossover stuff. Basically, when you have to play Star Wars, Superman, or Raiders March. Sounds about right... _________________ "I'm 73 and I'm still learning." - Maurice Murphy
Joined: 15 Nov 2001 Posts: 1825 Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 7:43 pm Post subject:
If a player is interested in the Hagstrom, they might also want to try the Bach 6BM and the Schilke 9.
The 6BM comes stock with a #26 throat and #24 backbore. Several years ago I compared the Hagstrom and the 6BM and thought the Bach had a fuller sound on C trumpet. (Perhaps I didn't react well to the extreme undercut of the Hagstrom.)
The Schilke 9 (Llewellyn Personal Model) feels larger than it's listed size, has a #26 throat, a backbore that I consider to be larger than a Bach 7 or 10, and has a cup about the same size as a Bach 1 1/2 B. Capable of a lot of sound for a small diameter mouthpiece.
Joined: 14 Aug 2009 Posts: 300 Location: Charlotte, NC
Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 7:44 pm Post subject:
Vin DiBona wrote:
Thank you for having common sense and posting this intelligent video.
I do watch you on Youtube and you are always spot on.
R. Tomasek
That is very kind of you to say! Very glad you enjoy my videos - it is even more satisfying to hear that from a long-time poster on this site like yourself. Thank you for watching!
jcoffey wrote:
Nice one man! I gotta fangirl for Pickett mouthpieces. Love them. I play Pickett stuff on almost everything. Their one-piece mouthpieces are like $80-90, and there are a lot of options.
Shires also has a good line of what are essentially Mt. Vernon copies, priced at $70. They're not as customizable as the Pickett mouthpieces(yet?), but still good bang for your buck.
Hey man! Great to hear from you. I have a TON of respect for Pickett, of course, but I am mostly finding the Pickett one pieces with the different orchestral throat/backbore options around $120 new. Maybe I'm not looking in the right place. Also, yes someone else had mentioned the Shires pieces to me and though they look great, they look like they come stock at that price, and you'd still have to get any throat and backbore alterations done aftermarket and that would bring you over $100. Again always happy to be proven wrong. 😂
kramergfy wrote:
The Wick Murphy series is unique, in that it is a symphonic mouthpiece designed for Bb trumpet. I'm sure someone has or can use it on a C trumpet, but Murphy never played a C.
They have a somewhat shallower cup than say a Bach 1 1/2 C, the rim is wide, and the alpha angle is a bit higher.
From what I can tell, it seems to be popular for Pops/crossover stuff. Basically, when you have to play Star Wars, Superman, or Raiders March. Sounds about right...
That is all very interesting. I will probably get one to make a video about at some point. A very good point about it not being for C but for a Bb trumpet. Hopefully that would've occurred to me eventually, but thank you for getting me there quicker.🤓 _________________ 2nd Trumpet, Charlotte Symphony Orchestra
2nd Trumpet, Central City Opera Orchestra
Joined: 14 Aug 2009 Posts: 300 Location: Charlotte, NC
Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 7:49 pm Post subject:
Andy Cooper wrote:
If a player is interested in the Hagstrom, they might also want to try the Bach 6BM and the Schilke 9.
The 6BM comes stock with a #26 throat and #24 backbore. Several years ago I compared the Hagstrom and the 6BM and thought the Bach had a fuller sound on C trumpet. (Perhaps I didn't react well to the extreme undercut of the Hagstrom.)
The Schilke 9 (Llewellyn Personal Model) feels larger than it's listed size, has a #26 throat, a backbore that I consider to be larger than a Bach 7 or 10, and has a cup about the same size as a Bach 1 1/2 B. Capable of a lot of sound for a small diameter mouthpiece.
Both under $100.
Awesome!!! I've never heard about the Bach 6BM or the Schilke 9 configurations, I'll definitely have to look into it. Very interesting. Thanks for sharing, Andy!
Andy Cooper wrote:
(Oh, Jon, love your YouTube videos.)
Ohhhh stop... I'm blushing. 😊 Very glad you enjoy them, thanks for watching. _________________ 2nd Trumpet, Charlotte Symphony Orchestra
2nd Trumpet, Central City Opera Orchestra
I was considering suggesting Stomvi mouthpieces, but I can't quite find their throat size. So I''m not quite sure. The ones I played certainly 'felt' orchestral, but maybe they don't fall in the category you're discussing here.
Joined: 14 Aug 2009 Posts: 300 Location: Charlotte, NC
Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:09 am Post subject:
hibidogrulez wrote:
I was considering suggesting Stomvi mouthpieces, but I can't quite find their throat size. So I''m not quite sure. The ones I played certainly 'felt' orchestral, but maybe they don't fall in the category you're discussing here.
You're hitting on a really good point here. Here's what I lay out in my video as being what I'm generally referring to when talking about "orchestral mouthpieces." (this generalization ONLY applies to orchestral trumpet specifciations common in US orchestras for use on C trumpet).
Cup: Around Bach B or C cup volume
Throat: Larger than a 27 (Majority between 22-26)
Backbore: Usually larger, or at least a different shape than the stock Bach 10, like a Bach 7 or 24.
Many people when talking about orchestral mouthpieces might be thinking primarily about rim diameter and perhaps cup volume. Cup volume is important but there are a wide range of volumes in common use in orchestras today.
RIM DIAMETER however is not that important. Even though most players perform on mouthpieces with diameters in the Bach 1-3 range, there are several examples of players and mouthpieces that have VERY orchestral sounds at smaller than typical diameters. Of course the John Hagstrom piece is a classic example with a custom 5-7 flat rim (from Vince DiMartino), a 1B cup, 25.5 throat, and an orchestral backbore.
So for the purpose of this video, I'm really focusing on the fact that there are not many examples of mouthpieces specifically with the larger throat and backbore sizes that are priced similar to their stock counterparts.
I can't find if Stomvi offers non stock throats in that price point or not actually! Would love for someone familiar with Stomvi to educate me. _________________ 2nd Trumpet, Charlotte Symphony Orchestra
2nd Trumpet, Central City Opera Orchestra
Hey man! Great to hear from you. I have a TON of respect for Pickett, of course, but I am mostly finding the Pickett one pieces with the different orchestral throat/backbore options around $120 new. Maybe I'm not looking in the right place. Also, yes someone else had mentioned the Shires pieces to me and though they look great, they look like they come stock at that price, and you'd still have to get any throat and backbore alterations done aftermarket and that would bring you over $100. Again always happy to be proven wrong. 😂
Pickett sells them for $120 on their website, but I didn't know that some dealers were actually selling them for that much (I looked--some are!). Most dealers I know of are selling them under $100 (ex. Thompson and Mpc Express for $99.95; Woodsy's and Milano Music for $89.95). Milano's doesn't have them listed on the website yet, but I work there so I can verify that price haha.
You're right about the Shires though! My mistake. _________________ Josh Coffey
Milano Music Center
Joined: 31 Dec 2004 Posts: 819 Location: Manchester- England
Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 11:52 am Post subject:
Jon I love your videos, you approach trumpet geekery with a passion and with a knowledge that I find really refreshing. Based on this vid I’ve just email Stork to discuss some options, I love my Hooten for the C trumpet but think the throat and backbore don’t line up as well on my Bb, I want to see what Stork suggest. Thank you for your vids I’ve subscribed and will keep an eye out for more content when you do it!
Best wishes
Jim
Joined: 14 Aug 2009 Posts: 300 Location: Charlotte, NC
Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 12:37 pm Post subject:
jcoffey wrote:
Pickett sells them for $120 on their website, but I didn't know that some dealers were actually selling them for that much (I looked--some are!). Most dealers I know of are selling them under $100 (ex. Thompson and Mpc Express for $99.95; Woodsy's and Milano Music for $89.95). Milano's doesn't have them listed on the website yet, but I work there so I can verify that price haha.
You're right about the Shires though! My mistake.
That's great news about the Pickett configurations. Glad that is an option available for everybody to experiment with for around $100. The key is just making the different configurations accessible so people actually have a chance to learn what they like through experimentation instead of expensive guess work.
thesplitmeister wrote:
Jon I love your videos, you approach trumpet geekery with a passion and with a knowledge that I find really refreshing. Based on this vid I’ve just email Stork to discuss some options, I love my Hooten for the C trumpet but think the throat and backbore don’t line up as well on my Bb, I want to see what Stork suggest. Thank you for your vids I’ve subscribed and will keep an eye out for more content when you do it!
Best wishes
Jim
Nice! I'm sure Stork will help set you up very well. Phyllis is well known as a mouthpiece expert and will definitely be able to point you in the right direction.
Jim, thank you so much for saying that. I think I can safely say that TrumpetHerald has been a big influence on my thinking and curiosity around trumpet equipment, so by that logic any longtime member here is someone who helped inspire me to make these videos. Very glad you enjoy them, and thanks for watching! _________________ 2nd Trumpet, Charlotte Symphony Orchestra
2nd Trumpet, Central City Opera Orchestra
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8911 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 2:34 pm Post subject:
How about the Schilke Symphony series? _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart
Joined: 21 Jan 2020 Posts: 194 Location: NW of ORD
Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 3:12 pm Post subject: Orchestral pieces under $100
I started back after many decades, and wasn't very good back then anyway.
Quote:
Nice! I'm sure Stork will help set you up very well. Phyllis is well known as a mouthpiece expert and will definitely be able to point you in the right direction.
After a little self teaching I had a consultation with Phyllis. Over a 2 year period I have been on 3 mouthpieces, a progression if you will. Had another session or 2 with Phyllis during this time. Actually just started on mpc #3. Each change has been minor, but moving in a planned direction. My progress has been consistent. My tone is really very nice, my articulation feels less arduous and sounds lighter, and my range is now moving above high C.
And I got a good instructor. _________________ Bach190ML43
Kanstul 1001
Bach NY7
Yamaha 631 Flugel
A very affordable option probably unknown to most people in the US is the Josef Klier (JK) "USA" line.
These are mostly just Mt. Vernon Bach copies, but you can get them with a 3.8 mm throat without additional cost. In general, the rims seem to be a bit softer than those of modern Bach mouthpieces. The backbore is also larger than Bach's current standard.
JK is probably the biggest German mouthpiece manufacturer. Their "Exclusive" line is played in many orchestras over here, but the "USA" line is closer to standard orchestral mouthpieces for the piston trumpet.
@Jon: keep up the great work! _________________ Berlin-based freelancer
Interests: baroque trumpet, solo literature, pedagogy
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I had a consultation with Phyllis. Over a 2 year period I have been on 3 mouthpieces, a progression if you will. Had another session or 2 with Phyllis during this time. Actually just started on mpc #3. Each change has been minor, but moving in a planned direction. My progress has been consistent. My tone is really very nice, my articulation feels less arduous and sounds lighter, and my range is now moving above high C.
