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3 octave scale breakthrough*



 
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Beyond16
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2021 9:56 pm    Post subject: 3 octave scale breakthrough* Reply with quote

* (with equipment change)
For brass instruments, I'm better suited to dent repair and refinishing than actual playing. But playing is fun too. As a beginning player, I decided to focus on range. The non-pedal low notes are no problem for me, but the high notes are. I set my goal for the biggest range, measured in major scale octaves, that I could play in one breath without stopping to reposition my lips. Sort of like a subset of what Javier Gonzalez can play, but without the circular breathing. I hit a plateau at 2 octaves and stayed there forever (a year).

All I practiced was multiple octave scales. I chose the F# scale (on Bb horn), because it starts at the lowest non-pedal note. I also practiced C major. I got to where I could play the 2 octave F# scale almost without limit. The 2 octave C major scale is a different story though. It was always a challenge.

The best I could do is here (03/13/2021). I struggled with the third octave so much I never even got to practice descending.

When middle school let out for the summer, my daughter brought home a loaner horn for practice. I took over her old one. You could say it's a 'large bore' horn, so it does take more air. But I am able to play that third octave on the new horn easily. The 3 octave scale in one breath is shaky and feeble on the new horn. But I can play it. Today I recorded it 10 times and picked the best.

Yes, it's a 3 valve Bb tuba. A Japanese made Yamaha student model in excellent mechanical condition. The cornet recording does sounds better. One reason is the microphone I used is mostly fantastic, but doesn't properly handle low notes. The other problem is a single breath 3 octave scale ascending and descending is impractical for tuba. Even Chris Olka, who plays 5 octave scales on tuba, takes breathes for 3 octave scales. I can play the individual octaves much more strongly. But taking a breath allows repositioning of the lips, which to me is a 'cheat', at least for trumpet. I do need to learn to sneak in that extra breath to have a good sound on tuba though.

With tuba, mouthpiece pressure is not a thing. My cornet range gains stopped around the time I got crowns for my 4 front upper teeth. I worried about mouthpiece pressure loosening the crowns. With the tuba mouthpiece, pressure doesn't do much beyond preventing air leaks. Squeezing the lips together more tightly seems to be the only way to play high notes.

The big difference I find with tuba is the amount of time per day I can actually play. With cornet, I ended up playing for a few seconds then resting 2 or 3 times that amount. Soon, my lips couldn't hit the high notes due to fatigue. If I tried too hard, I would enter this cycle where I couldn't get even 2 octaves for a few days. The total actual playing time per day for my cornet practice was a very few minutes. With tuba, it seems I can play and play. My lips do tire, but they recover quickly. So after all these months, I am finally getting some practice.

I even moved past scales and am building on the minimal sight reading skills I learned in the 1970's. I have several vintage beginner cornet and trumpet books and I am working though some of them. I try to play the easiest stuff at two different octaves. Though tuba music is normally written in base clef, I'm sticking with treble clef for the time being. The tuba is Bb like my cornet. So the fingerings are the same, and the sound comes out two octaves lower. For warmup, I play 12 major scales, ascending and descending 2 octaves in a single breath per scale. I do this for tongued and slurred. I printed a fingering cheat sheet for this. No way I'm muscle memorizing another 10 scales.

Now I have some motivating to sell off some of my vast vintage trumpet/cornet collection. I will put some in marketplace here. I need to free up some space in case I run across a deal on a 4 valve tuba. The 4th valve fills in the 5 semitone gap between low F# and the pedal C below it. At least this is my understanding. I need to confirm it on my daughter's 4 valve tuba when she is not home. With a 4 valve tuba, I just might be able to add another octave of range on the bottom.
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etc-etc
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2021 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there a tune-all (or any tunable) slide that you can extend for lowest notes on the tuba?
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camelbrass
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2021 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My evolution playing brass instruments has gone the other way, from playing BBb Bass (tuba) in brass bands and some orchestral work to, these days, playing trumpet and in all those years I don't think I've ever focused on scales for developing range. I've used scales as part of my practice routine but only ever as a vehicle to develop my reading and musical skills.

Bass instruments are all about getting a resonant sound, not about range. Concentrate on breathing, delivering controlled well supported air and being in tune, being able to sound good at ppp and when you're lifting the roof off is much more important. The only time I've ever needed to play above the staff was when playing cornet solos. When you start playing in ensembles you'll need treble clef, bass clef and the ability to transpose to/from concert pitch. This is all part of the journey.

Good luck.

Regards,


Trevor


Last edited by camelbrass on Fri Jul 16, 2021 11:16 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Brassnose
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2021 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes! I have made the exact same experience with the bass trumpet. I still consider trumpet my main instrument but (in spite of all my trumpet contributions and looking into other trumpets on here) not by much. I find myself gravitating towards the bass trumpet more and more.

I too find it easier to play the larger mouthpiece and using more air seems to make things easier - although I am often amazed at how little air I really need on the bass trumpet.

As far as range goes I find that a good warmup is essential on bass trumpet as well but I can play (slightly) higher on bass trumpet than on trumpet. On trumpet my usable range ends around high E while on bass trumpet I top out around high G or A (an octave lower, but using the same relative position of the notes).

Playing both trumpet and bass trumpet has helped my embouchure and tongue control, my air flow, and my sound. After playing 16.5 mm pieces on trumpet for 41 years I even find myself leaning towards slightly larger diameters. Just switched to a larger bass trumpet/trombone mp (Couesnon 3 and Giardinelli 7D with about 23.5 mm or so inner diameter to a B&S 6 1/2 AL with about 24.5 mm) and got a much improved sound and attacks.

So, YES.
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Brassnose
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2021 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as the 4th valve is concerned: yes, you can use it to extend the low range, which is fun and sometimes useful. But mainly you can also use it to play cleaner and sometimes faster. On my bass trumpet the A and Ab above the staff speak harder than the rest of the notes if I use conventional fingerings. Using alternate fingerings involving the 4th valve they are a breeze to play, sound better, and are more in tune. So building that 4th valve into your practice routine can come in very handy.
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camelbrass
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2021 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

etc-etc wrote:
Is there a tune-all (or any tunable) slide that you can extend for lowest notes on the tuba?


Holding down the 4th valve (if you've got one) effectively puts a Bb tuba into F which lets you play notes a 4th below the normal bottom F sharp without relying on pedals. Some of them a pretty funky though depending on the instrument.

Regards,


Trevor
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Brassnose
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ camelbrass: yes, this is true, although this would, starting from a Bb tuba put it into low F. The true F tuba is above the Bb tuba. In fact with my 4 valve Bb bass trumpet this is exactly what I can do: hold the 4th valve down and have a small 3 valve F “tuba”.

While I find playing a real F tuba is quite doable for me, playing a real Bb tuba is more of a challenge. It seems to take significantly more air than the F tuba I played so far.
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 4:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For tuba, learn to play bass clef, and use the correct fingering to have the notes be in concert pitch.
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Brassnose
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That too, yes.
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