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Yamaha Mark Gould Mouthpiece



 
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Jon Kaplan
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Joined: 14 Aug 2009
Posts: 219
Location: Charlotte, NC

PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:32 pm    Post subject: Yamaha Mark Gould Mouthpiece Reply with quote

Hey everyone!

I recently made a video about the Yamaha Tom Hooten Signature mouthpiece, which is based on a Yamaha 17B4 (Bach 1-1/4C) - and I was surprised to learn soon after in the comments that there is another Yamaha signature mouthpiece based on the 17B4... the Mark Gould Signature mouthpiece. This is one of those deep dives where I use VennCAD to explore all of the minute differences and alterations between the 17B4 and the Gould (as well as the Hooten).

WARNING - In this episode you'll also hear me rant about why inner rim diameters can be misleading, different vintages of mouthpieces, and comparing throat lengths. Trumpet nerds only. 🤓🎺


Link

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Andy Cooper
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Joined: 15 Nov 2001
Posts: 913
Location: Terre Haute, IN USA

PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are interested in the consequences of the Gould backbore changes to the Yamaha "C" you discuss, you might take a look at Matt Frost's dissertation.

Trumpet Mouthpiece Backbores: An Investigation of Interior Volume and Timbre

This link gives you the abstract and a link to download the PDF of his 100+ page dissertation. I read his dissertation and can proudly state that I understood 3 – maybe 4 whole pages completely - if you count the title page.

https://digital.lib.washington.edu/researchworks/handle/1773/25455
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picctpt33
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Joined: 07 Aug 2019
Posts: 55

PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Love these videos!
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Jon Kaplan
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Joined: 14 Aug 2009
Posts: 219
Location: Charlotte, NC

PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andy Cooper wrote:
If you are interested in the consequences of the Gould backbore changes to the Yamaha "C" you discuss, you might take a look at Matt Frost's dissertation.

Trumpet Mouthpiece Backbores: An Investigation of Interior Volume and Timbre

This link gives you the abstract and a link to download the PDF of his 100+ page dissertation. I read his dissertation and can proudly state that I understood 3 – maybe 4 whole pages completely - if you count the title page.

https://digital.lib.washington.edu/researchworks/handle/1773/25455


Oh man, that is incredible! I know Matt is the real deal already from his craftsmanship, but that is an interesting and relevant dissertation for the kinds of discussions I have in my videos. I'll have to try to read it myself. Backbores are the most mysterious part of the mouthpiece and now that I have access the VennCAD, comparing their characteristics is easier than ever. Thanks for showing this to me Andy, looking forward to checking it out and learning what I can!

picctpt33 wrote:
Love these videos!


So glad you enjoy them! I really enjoy making them.
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Trumpetingbynurture
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Joined: 18 Nov 2015
Posts: 779

PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jon Kaplan wrote:
Andy Cooper wrote:
If you are interested in the consequences of the Gould backbore changes to the Yamaha "C" you discuss, you might take a look at Matt Frost's dissertation.

Trumpet Mouthpiece Backbores: An Investigation of Interior Volume and Timbre

This link gives you the abstract and a link to download the PDF of his 100+ page dissertation. I read his dissertation and can proudly state that I understood 3 – maybe 4 whole pages completely - if you count the title page.

https://digital.lib.washington.edu/researchworks/handle/1773/25455


Oh man, that is incredible! I know Matt is the real deal already from his craftsmanship, but that is an interesting and relevant dissertation for the kinds of discussions I have in my videos. I'll have to try to read it myself. Backbores are the most mysterious part of the mouthpiece and now that I have access the VennCAD, comparing their characteristics is easier than ever. Thanks for showing this to me Andy, looking forward to checking it out and learning what I can!

picctpt33 wrote:
Love these videos!


So glad you enjoy them! I really enjoy making them.


The Gould Backbore was found by Frost to be very 'unstable', meaning the timbre changes a lot between dynamics and registers. BUT at the same time, for comparison purposes Matt also 'normalised' (for lack of a better word) the throat back to a 27. Not 100% how that was achieve.

Quote:
The YMG mouthpiece had a stock #24 throat and the measurements were altered, or shrunk, to line up with a #27 throat. Therefore, the YMG backbore created and used in this test is smaller in volume, but with the same shape, as the stock YMG backbore.


but as I saw in your vennCad drawings, the Gould has a long straight throat at the top of the backbore, so I imagine any change back to a 27 throat would potentially be a fairly drastic change to the backbore.

This is probably the main takeaway from Frost's paper:

Quote:

In general, as the rate of taper in the middle section of a backbore increases the timbre gets darker, conversely as the taper decreases the timbre gets brighter, in the low and upper registers. When the rate of taper of the small-middle end of the backbore is increased, the timbre of the trumpet gets brighter in the middle register. When the rate of taper of the small-
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middle end of the backbore is decreased, the timbre of the trumpet gets darker in the middle register. When the rate of taper of the small end of the backbore is increased, the timbre gets brighter in the middle register. When the rate of taper of the small end of the backbore is decreased, the timbre gets darker in the middle register. The shape of the backbore strongly correlates to timbre.


Also, the standard Yamaha C backbore was found to be very stable/consistent accross range and dynamics. Makes me want to try one with my own tops.
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Andy Cooper
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Joined: 15 Nov 2001
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Location: Terre Haute, IN USA

PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trumpetingbynurture wrote:


Also, the standard Yamaha C backbore was found to be very stable/consistent accross range and dynamics. Makes me want to try one with my own tops.


I found that desirable on C trumpet in a church setting where I did not want to "light up" when I played higher or louder.
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