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embouchure dystonia



 
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thornybob
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Joined: 18 Mar 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:22 am    Post subject: embouchure dystonia Reply with quote

I have played trumpet, flugelhorn for many years. About 1.5 years ago I developed embouchure dystonia. I couldn't play well at all until I downed 4 or 5 ounces of whiskey. Then I could play as well as ever. I now have a buddy in my jazz band who drives me to rehearsals and gigs so I don't get a DUI. I so enjoy playing that I just have to have some ETOH before I can really play well. Anyone else experienced this so called "cure"?
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TrumpetMD
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Joined: 22 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking as a physician, but just giving general information on this topic. Sorry to hear you are having problems, and I hope you find a good solution.

A number of embouchure issues are incorrectly attributed to dystonias. For wind musicians, the term "focal dystonia" or "embouchure dystonia" is often used as a synonym for embouchure collapse or embouchure overuse. However, these are not the same thing. By definition, a dystonia is a disconnect between the nerves and muscles. This "disconnect" is limited to one part of the body or one type of activity. The muscles themselves are fine. The problem is that the nerves are "misfiring".

A dystonia typically comes with neurologic symptoms, such as involuntary movements, abnormal contractions, tremors, or a lack of coordination around the embouchure muscles. By contrast, an embouchure overuse syndrome is usually about damage to muscles or soft tissues, and is often associated with pain, swelling, redness, or similar symptoms.

There is a lot of anecdotal information about embouchure dystonias, most of which lack any scientific foundation. Some of these anecdotal descriptions also talk about cures, which are unlikely. All primary dystonias and most secondary dystonias are incurable. There may be compensating treatments. But there are no cures.

As a physician, it would be difficult for me to call something an embouchure dystonia without the presence of neurologic symptoms. From the information provided, it isn't clear how alcohol comes into play, and what it is treating or masking. A true focal dystonia should probably be evaluated by a physician (a neurologist), to rule out organic and reversible causes. After that, a rehabilitation program with a good trumpet teacher is likely the way to go.

Best of luck with this.
Mike
_________________
Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns.
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blbaumgarn
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Joined: 26 Jul 2017
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:35 pm    Post subject: embouchure distonia Reply with quote

I like the gentleman's comment about seeing a dr. or neurologist. Could be something serious but treatable. If alcohol in small amounts relaxes you there may be a nerve med to take that works without addictive qualities or side effects. I'd be a bad person to council on using alcohol as I have been in recovery for 36 1/2 years. Just don't give up on it if you like playing.
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"There are two sides to a trumpeter's personality,
there is one that lives to lay waste to woodwinds and strings, leaving them lie blue and lifeless along a swath of destruction that is a
trumpeter's fury-then there is the dark side!" Irving Bush
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Brad361
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Joined: 16 Dec 2007
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Location: Houston, TX.

PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2021 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking as a recoverED very heavy drinker (yes. recovered….I know that’s rare, it’s been 21 years):
The OP would be well advised to seek medical care, alcohol is not a cure for anything.

Brad
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When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval
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dstpt
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Joined: 14 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2021 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my experience of recovery from FTSED (Focal Task Specific Embouchure Dystonia), I have found the only way out is through retraining. We know that the brain is an amazing and complex system. The path to encountering the disorder can be varied, and the path out is challenging. I think many, if not most, sufferers give up, and I can empathize with them.

(Presuming the OP has been properly diagnosed), I am not surprised that there is less, to no, dystonic interference after the consumption of a certain amount of alcohol. Although, as others have reacted, I don't think it wise to continue with this practice. I know it is extremely frustrating dealing with the dystonic activity, but in order to enjoy playing free of it, it will most likely require a conscientious retraining and new approach to playing.

The main thing I've learned in how it manifests, or develops, is through "triggers" to the mind. I am thinking that alcohol relaxes the OP enough to not be stressed about how the big "D" manifests to a point where the activity of nerve signal from brain to facial function is no longer subject to the specific "trigger(s)." This is why the OP can perform free of it when doused. I'm guessing that it manifests also during practice and not just performance, that is, when you are at home and under no "performance pressure" from an audience. It could be that the performance pressure is the trigger, but I kind of doubt it, that it maifests regardless. I hope the OP can find some help. For me it took a lot of seeking help and finding the "rebuilding skills and exercises" to get to a better place...for the most part, much better than my playing has ever been. I'm not saying that recovery is possible for everyone who battles it, but i can definitely say that retraining is not for the faint at heart.
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