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LowNoteSavant Regular Member
Joined: 22 Jul 2021 Posts: 15
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Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:36 am Post subject: Finding the aperature again :) |
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It's amazing how simple it is to conceptualize a good opening, but man I'm just having trouble hitting it again.
I haven't played since grade school. Before I quit playing, I remember that getting the upper register was actually easy because I had developed the proper technique to increase the speed of the air stream to get higher.
Now my lips are crackling and I hear separations around the mouth. It's going to be a bumpy ride getting back. Does the "aha" moment make you happy or what? I can't wait to find it again.
Just venting to say, we all have been there. |
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Dayton Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2013 Posts: 2025 Location: USA
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Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 7:38 am Post subject: |
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Welcome back to trumpet playing! If at all possible, take some lessons. Your teacher can help you get off to a good start with your embouchure, help you put together a practice routine that works for you, etc. Good luck! |
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abontrumpet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 May 2009 Posts: 1765
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Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:11 am Post subject: |
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Don't get too fatigued/keep it fresh. Short spurts of playing (1 minute). Slowly your chops will find it's place again. Don't think about it and just try to make pretty sounds. |
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chrisf3000 Veteran Member
Joined: 04 Jul 2004 Posts: 346 Location: Winnipeg, Canada
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Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:01 am Post subject: |
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The answer lies in making a good sound. If you make the nicest sound you can make, then the aperture will be right. Thinking about the physical will tie you up in knots. Are tennis players thinking about exactly which angle their arms come down on at a specific velocity? Not necessarily - they are likely picking a spot and hitting to it. Are basketball players thinking which wrist angle they are producing when shooting a free throw? They are focused on the net.
Worrying too much about tongue angles, embouchure tightness or looseness, or aperture sizes commonly produces "Paralysis by Analysis". The easier way is to produce a beautiful sound. Do that, and you are likely producing an aperture that is already the right size and balanced with your air. |
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LowNoteSavant Regular Member
Joined: 22 Jul 2021 Posts: 15
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Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks guys...when I quit playing before high school I had good range and chops. I was always angry because I was playing lower register 3rd chair stuff.
And I learned later that all the high note guys just had brighter shallow cups...and my band teacher was a recovering alcoholic.
hahahah but he got our band to beat out private school kids in competition. |
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Robert P Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Feb 2013 Posts: 2595
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Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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IMO trying to "conceptualize a good opening" is misguided and pointless. The aperture happens, you can't see it or meaningfully try to gauge it.
There's a whole bunch of other things to focus on - if the sound is right, the aperture is right. _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Flugel |
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JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3298 Location: Endwell NY USA
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Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2021 4:57 am Post subject: |
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Robert P wrote: | IMO trying to "conceptualize a good opening" is misguided and pointless. The aperture happens, you can't see it or meaningfully try to gauge it.
... if the sound is right, the aperture is right. |
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I think the key element here is to recognize 'when' the sound is right, and how the aperture (and entire embouchure) feels at that time - remembering and duplicating that feeling (all the little details) can help to consistently obtain the desired sound.
edit: also include the breathing process, process, control, etc.
I suggest listening to Reinhardt's explanation about 'Sensation Theory' that is mentioned here -
https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1632112#1632112 _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.
Last edited by JayKosta on Sun Aug 15, 2021 7:43 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Billy B Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 6130 Location: Des Moines
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Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2021 5:30 am Post subject: |
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Robert P wrote: | IMO trying to "conceptualize a good opening" is misguided and pointless. The aperture happens, you can't see it or meaningfully try to gauge it.
There's a whole bunch of other things to focus on - if the sound is right, the aperture is right. |
_________________ Bill Bergren |
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jadickson Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Jun 2006 Posts: 1294 Location: Raleigh, NC
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Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2021 5:55 am Post subject: |
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Two things:
1. I agree that "conceptualizing the opening" is hazardous. Wrong approach, in my experience / opinion. Think about how you want to sound and play, and trust that your body will make the right adjustments over time. That is how you learned how to talk and everything else, that is how our brains work.
2. The best exercise I have found for embouchure is playing a 2nd line G starting PP, crescendo very slowly up to MF, then back down to PP. Keep the tone and intonation steady. Rinse and repeat for five minutes. Once you can do that, you can do the same thing but on different notes, go up and own chromatically. >> Rest as much as you play <<. You will be bad at this in the beginning, but after a few days you will be good. _________________ Justin Dickson
Middle school band director. Still learning.
www.BandmateTuner.com |
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Billy B Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 6130 Location: Des Moines
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Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2021 8:13 am Post subject: |
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jadickson wrote: | Two things:
1. I agree that "conceptualizing the opening" is hazardous. Wrong approach, in my experience / opinion. Think about how you want to sound and play, and trust that your body will make the right adjustments over time. That is how you learned how to talk and everything else, that is how our brains work.
2. The best exercise I have found for embouchure is playing a 2nd line G starting PP, crescendo very slowly up to MF, then back down to PP. Keep the tone and intonation steady. Rinse and repeat for five minutes. Once you can do that, you can do the same thing but on different notes, go up and own chromatically. >> Rest as much as you play <<. You will be bad at this in the beginning, but after a few days you will be good. |
Schlossberg #6 _________________ Bill Bergren |
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Brad361 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 7080 Location: Houston, TX.
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Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2021 9:24 am Post subject: |
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LowNoteSavant wrote: | Thanks guys...when I quit playing before high school I had good range and chops. I was always angry because I was playing lower register 3rd chair stuff.
And I learned later that all the high note guys just had brighter shallow cups...and my band teacher was a recovering alcoholic.
hahahah but he got our band to beat out private school kids in competition. |
I’ve sort of been staying out of this type of discussion, but…..
Given that I have no idea whatsoever of your level of skill in high school, one of two things might have been the reason your director had you on third parts: either he needed someone with some ability on the lower parts, or you didn’t have the ability, other than range, to be on first part.
Also, the “high note guys” may in fact have been using shallower commercial mouthpieces, but it sounds as if you’re implying that they had range because of that. NO mouthpiece enables you to do anything that you can’t otherwise do. IMO, the concept of “cheater mouthpieces” is a myth. I use a commercial mouthpiece because it’s helpful for the type of playing I do, for a number of reasons, but it certainly does not give me range that I would not otherwise have.
Off topic a bit, but I really don’t see the relevance of stating that your director was a recovering alcoholic, whether that’s true or is not.
Brad _________________ When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval
Last edited by Brad361 on Sun Aug 15, 2021 4:03 pm; edited 5 times in total |
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JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3298 Location: Endwell NY USA
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Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2021 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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Brad361 wrote: | ... might have been the reason your director had you on third parts: either he needed someone with some ability on the lower parts, ... |
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My community band director (former school BD) mentioned that he enjoyed hearing the 3rd trpt parts coming thru. Those parts often contain interesting counter-melodies and ornamentation.
Also, the 3rd trpt parts often supplement some of the French horn parts, and that can be very helpful when the 3rd trpt player does a good job. _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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SMrtn Veteran Member
Joined: 29 Oct 2014 Posts: 367 Location: Spain
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Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2021 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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Trouble finding your aperature eh?
I have the same problem after a few aperitifs |
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Bethmike Veteran Member
Joined: 21 Jan 2020 Posts: 194 Location: NW of ORD
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Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2021 6:26 pm Post subject: Finding Aperture again |
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If I am having an off day I stop and do this:
Do 1 or 2 minutes of long tones with a weird twist.
- Done quietly
- In staff
- Making sure I am not rolling in or out differently that my usual set
- AND I try to open my jaw as wide as I can and still make a nice sound
It feels like I've opened my jaw an inch, it's surely a fraction of an inch. I will exaggerate the movement for a few seconds, and then settle in to a normal set. It seems to get my jaw in position, and get my corners operating correctly.
Maybe it's weird, but it works for me. _________________ Bach190ML43
Kanstul 1001
Bach NY7
Yamaha 631 Flugel |
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Billy B Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 6130 Location: Des Moines
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Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2021 4:38 am Post subject: Re: Finding Aperture again |
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Bethmike wrote: | If I am having an off day I stop and do this:
Do 1 or 2 minutes of long tones with a weird twist.
- Done quietly
- In staff
- Making sure I am not rolling in or out differently that my usual set
- AND I try to open my jaw as wide as I can and still make a nice sound
It feels like I've opened my jaw an inch, it's surely a fraction of an inch. I will exaggerate the movement for a few seconds, and then settle in to a normal set. It seems to get my jaw in position, and get my corners operating correctly.
Maybe it's weird, but it works for me. |
Pitch bending _________________ Bill Bergren |
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Andy Del Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Posts: 2662 Location: sunny Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 11:24 am Post subject: |
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There is essentially zero we can do Low Note to help you based on your posts. Things are not working as you want? THAT is the call to practice. How you go about this is your cal. Most prudent people will get assistance in a meaningful way: a private teacher and reply on freebies from an Internet forum.
The only intelligent thing we can do is let you know what works for us, and that may or may not help. Bet on it not helping.
Go get a good teacher. Face to face or online, but do that, put your $$$ where you want your music to be and enjoy the ride…
Cheers
Andy _________________ so many horns, so few good notes... |
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JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3298 Location: Endwell NY USA
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Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 11:55 am Post subject: |
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Andy Del wrote: | There is essentially zero we can do Low Note to help you based on your posts. Things are not working as you want? THAT is the call to practice. ... |
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Practice and patience is the key, along with making sure you are using the correct techniques, etc. - a good teacher can quickly identify problems that will hamper your improvement.
Earlier you said -
"Before I quit playing, I remember that getting the upper register was actually easy because I had developed the proper technique to increase the speed of the air stream to get higher."
'Air speed' (usually regulated by internal air pressure and lip resistance to air flow) is certainly an often mentioned part of technique, but there's a lot more involved that you might have not 'gotten'.
A common problem being excessive use of high mouthpiece pressure to create the resistance and to tension the lips. Excessive pressure seems to work for a while, but then it can cause pain and injury, or physically STOPS the lips from being able to vibrate. _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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Brad361 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 7080 Location: Houston, TX.
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Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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Andy Del wrote: | There is essentially zero we can do Low Note to help you based on your posts. Things are not working as you want? THAT is the call to practice. How you go about this is your cal. …..
Andy |
This. ☝️
Brad _________________ When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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