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There is a Disservice Being Done to Young Trumpeters


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lipshurt
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2021 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding “a disservice is being done to trumpet players”....... man that is some weird line of talk.

Nobody thinks that players either top out at D or can go up to Double C, one or the other. Nobody thinks that, nobody says that, nobody is like that.

Even people on the “internet” are not that bizarre. The premise is whacked.
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HERMOKIWI
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2021 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To play higher you place greater resistance on the air stream. In the high register resistance on the air stream is your friend. In the low register resistance on the air stream is not your friend.

As for my technique increasing the aperture tunnel, which is essentially curling the back of my lower lip up the back side of my upper lip (this is a very elementary description), the more I make the adjustment the more the entry point of the aperture is moved up higher on the back side of my upper lip and so the farther the distance between that point and where the air exits the aperture (the front of my lower lip stays in a relatively stable position, it's the back part that moves the most and essentially pivots upwards increasing the length of the aperture tunnel and providing lip to lip compression- again, a very elementary description). These are tiny differences in terms of linear measurement but the differences don't need to be great to produce the desired result.

Get it?
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Jaw04
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2021 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The volume with which you are playing is the greatest challenge to playing in the upper register for me, once you have "unlocked" those notes in the practice room. I can figure out the notes up to double C quietly in the practice room and still struggle to nail full resonant loud E's or F's above the staff because of the volume of the group I am playing in (articulation, tone color, intonation and rhythmic accuracy are also added challenges in musical situations in addition to volume).

It's not easy to be playing loudly with a funk band or big band in the common range, up to high C, and then suddenly maintain that volume into the extreme upper register. It is not even easy to hit those notes with less than ideal sound or volume when you are in a loud live playing situation. It is easy to practice softer and work your way up to the upper register with little air. At least, that has been my experience.

That's not to say that soft practice is not beneficial. It just means the next step is applying what you learn in soft practice into loud playing. I do feel that strength comes into play here, after finesse has been established.
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nieuwguyski
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2021 9:23 pm    Post subject: Re: There is a Disservice Being Done to Young Trumpeters Reply with quote

HackAmateur wrote:
...I mean that I was told only two camps of trumpet players exist when it comes to range, based on things I read on this website and other websites...

Either:
1.) You're a "High D Trumpet Player", whose highest note is High D and you either airball or play an extremely weak High Eb, but nothing after that.
OR
2.) You're a "Double High C Player", who discovered the "trick" or gimmick that magically increased your range from High D to Double High C and beyond.

This is bullcrap, to put it as nicely as I can put it.

Lots of trumpet players probably have a range somewhere between "High D" and "Double High C+", but those players are SEVERELY underrepresented online. Why is that the case? I'm asking as a player who DOES fall into the middle ground category.


One thing is that polling trumpet players about their high ranges brings egos into play. I submit this thread, dredged up from the past on this very board:

https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=149164&highlight=

The signal-to-noise ratio is fairly low but any number of respondents, including myself, describe their ranges as falling into the "middle ground."

Earlier today I played a fund-raising concert for the local semi-pro musical theater company. It's pushing me to my limits, which still fall in your middle ground. I just hope I can still play to my limits for the matinee and evening shows tomorrow and Sunday.
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steve0930
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank You Contributors
For what has been a very good thread. A not inconsiderable amount of effort and time taken by some of you guys so thanks for this conscientious and meticulous sharing of points - for me a good example of how TH can be a resource for all trumpet players from beginners to experts.

Embouchure set up.

RobertP I liked
Quote:
finding the way of setting the mouthpiece that makes it feel anchored, being aware of various elements of how the facial muscles come into play, the opening of the teeth, horn angle, the mouth cavity, specific awareness that the tissue under the mp needs to be relaxed, that the tension is transferred subtly from the surrounding musculature, awareness of lip tissue that extends past the edges of the teeth.


and I appreciated the detail of some of your own struggles - motivating for me to realize that even today's experts have had their share of adversity.

Aperture Tunnel - A few weeks ago I asked - I can't remember where - about lengthening the aperture tunnel so thanks for your input Hermokivi. Hither too I was seeing the process as accentuating the pout or "kiss" with forward corners (Balanced Embouchure (BE) RollOut) but your very precise explanation abut interplay between lips gave me a new perspective (BE RollIn)

And Hats off to HackAmateur - you got a good thread going - challenged people along the way and also open yourself to new ideas / asking for advice. Yes!

Cheers and stay safe
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Rapier232
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To build the strength of the embouchure , the CTS by Larry Merregillano, seems to be getting good results for a lot of players.
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Robert P
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

steve0930 wrote:

RobertP I liked
Quote:
finding the way of setting the mouthpiece that makes it feel anchored, being aware of various elements of how the facial muscles come into play, the opening of the teeth, horn angle, the mouth cavity, specific awareness that the tissue under the mp needs to be relaxed, that the tension is transferred subtly from the surrounding musculature, awareness of lip tissue that extends past the edges of the teeth.


and I appreciated the detail of some of your own struggles - motivating for me to realize that even today's experts have had their share of adversity.

Hopefully you'll find it useful. I don't necessarily consider myself an "expert" except maybe regarding my own setup.
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furcifer
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2021 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lots of great info here. Talking about technique has been extremely helpful to me because over all these types of discussions I get new little ideas to try and integrate from here and there, and that's what it takes to discover one's own "technique" that is tailored to their own unique physiology.

Good advice is good advice. Fundamentals are always important. Free advice is always worth every penny, LOL But sometimes quite a bit more. We have enough "qualified" trumpet players online in this day and age that most "bad advice" usually gets shot down pretty quickly. How fortunate we are - it sure as hell wasn't always that way...

But I don't like presumptions, conflations and straw-man arguments.:

A gimmicky "claim" doesn't mean that the method inside is totally without merit. That's just advertising. Welcome to planet Earth; we have advertising claims that are not entirely true. Caveat emptor: YRMV.

I've never actually seen a "gimmick" METHOD, and without specifics, this is a straw man. All the ones I have seen worked for somebody.

I've never seen a high-note method that didn't at least reiterate good fundamentals in it somewhere.

In well over 40 years, I've never seen a young player looking for "gimmicks" who hadn't ALREADY been told by their very first teacher that there are none, and to concentrate on fundamentals and consistent practice.

I've also never known a trumpet player that didn't get frustrated or bored with fundamentals at some point, LOL! So we always try new stuff! Over 40 years of "fundamentals" for me; so hell yes, I'd still try chicken-blood sacrifices if I thought it had ANY chance of giving me a solid Double C, LOL

I've also never seen a rant post in a trumpet forum that didn't presume that "they" don't practice, "they" don't focus on fundamentals, "they" are all on a mouthpiece quest, "they" are all hyper-focused on range to the exclusion of every other aspect of playing, etc., etc., and yet EVERY respondent is miraculously never one of "them", so just who are these cats, anyway? I keep hearing about "them", but I've never actually met one of "them". Do "they" have their own facebook group? LOL

OK, so back to teaching young players: 90% of teaching young players is just teaching young PEOPLE to be more responsible, exercise better judgement, and prioritize their daily activities better. So.... How many "adults" are lacking in these areas, too? Yeah, that's what I thought. We can all benefit from being better humans.

Teaching motivates me to be a better example in a way that nothing else does. But I'm not a full-time teacher because I'm a player, first and foremost. Took a while for me to figure that out in my college days. And I'm more of a musician than "strictly pro". The best version of "professionalism" is a personal standard, not a mercenary bent. My first Director always said, "'Band' means 'together'." So I concentrate on being a better example of consistent practice and fundamentals and intelligent approach to the high range, and just playing with other cats. If I make money, that's great, but it's not my only income source, and that's another thing: Teaching young people a broad base of life skills and how to hustle will help ensure that playing continues to be "worth it" - enriching their lives in ways ultimately more important than monetary. This all may sound a little off-topic, but it's really not, because it all adds up to PERSPECTIVE. Gaining better perspective on life in general from a mentor enables the young player to digest the "advertising" and still make intelligent choices.

"Technique": I really like the concept of the "aperture tunnel" and "leverage" and firmly agree that everything happens there and in that way. This goes right along with what Wayne Bergeron has said and probably the reason why Arturo Sandoval can play on the receiver without a mouthpiece.
But almost everything discussed about this could perhaps be better understood if there was a disclaimer about whether the person giving the advice is an "upstream" or "downstream" player in the first place - at the very least. It often changes the context about which lip needs to be doing what. Like SO many players in the last century, I was a "forced-downstream" player until I finally read some more modern treatises that confirmed my suspicion that being a natural upstream player is perfectly OK, and yet involves different advantages and disadvantages for those who more naturally play that way. I made the switch about four years ago, and, as a "high G" player for so many years, I am now a "high A" player, and no longer feel limited - and that is HUGE for me. Not many cats can add a full step to their useful range after they've been playing for so long, much less feel like the "hard cap" is just no longer there. My biggest challenge is still consistent practice, and working range in small increments that doesn't ruin my endurance for eveything else in my routine, or vice-versa.
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HackAmateur
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lipshurt wrote:
Regarding “a disservice is being done to trumpet players”....... man that is some weird line of talk.

Nobody thinks that players either top out at D or can go up to Double C, one or the other. Nobody thinks that, nobody says that, nobody is like that.

Even people on the “internet” are not that bizarre. The premise is whacked.


Use the 'search' function to prove yourself wrong. Not just on this website, but also on a mainstream search engine like Google.
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HackAmateur
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

furcifer wrote:
Lots of great info here. Talking about technique has been extremely helpful to me because over all these types of discussions I get new little ideas to try and integrate from here and there, and that's what it takes to discover one's own "technique" that is tailored to their own unique physiology.

---snip---

I've also never known a trumpet player that didn't get frustrated or bored with fundamentals at some point, LOL! So we always try new stuff! Over 40 years of "fundamentals" for me; so hell yes, I'd still try chicken-blood sacrifices if I thought it had ANY chance of giving me a solid Double C, LOL


Speaking of getting frustrated or bored with fundamentals, that describes today's practice for me, which was divided into 3 sections. Basically for me, 'Fundamentals Mondays' is a thing, so on Mondays, I use my "orchestral mouthpiece" (that's what I call it anyway, it's a regular Schilke 15) and revisit basic fundamentals.

Sometimes, I'm loving it and I'm like "yes I'm refining the basics." But more than half the time, before the entire 2.5 hours of practice on Monday (divided into three parts), I'm tired, my chops are feeling stiff, I'm bored, and I'm hating myself for forcing myself to do basics. Not literally "hating myself" as in self-esteem, but you probably know what I mean!

Quote:
I've also never seen a rant post in a trumpet forum that didn't presume that "they" don't practice, "they" don't focus on fundamentals, "they" are all on a mouthpiece quest, "they" are all hyper-focused on range to the exclusion of every other aspect of playing, etc., etc., and yet EVERY respondent is miraculously never one of "them", so just who are these cats, anyway? I keep hearing about "them", but I've never actually met one of "them". Do "they" have their own facebook group? LOL


I've seen people presume this stuff, but I personally don't do it unless "they" reveal themselves. For example, if somebody posts "I didn't practice for 4 months, never touched my trumpet, but now that it's time for marching band, my endurance is suffering"... then, obviously that person is "they" who doesn't practice fundamentals or, apparently, anything for months. lol

Quote:
OK, so back to teaching young players: 90% of teaching young players is just teaching young PEOPLE to be more responsible, exercise better judgement, and prioritize their daily activities better. So.... How many "adults" are lacking in these areas, too? Yeah, that's what I thought. We can all benefit from being better humans.


This is incredibly important and I agree completely. The trumpet goes beyond simply taking the horn out of its case and practicing... or simply going to a gig, pulling out the horn, playing, and maybe getting paid for it if you're pro. No; the trumpet is much more than that. In fact, through almost any musical instrument, you can learn to be a better person or learn life lessons beyond trumpet.

When I came back to the trumpet in January 2019, my trumpet teacher (a commercial pro player) told me "trumpet should be therapeutic" and that it should make me a happier person in general, even outside of trumpet playing. That is SO TRUE. It's not just sitting around practicing technical stuff or doing fundamentals all the time. There's so much more to it than what is on the surface of trumpet playing!

Quote:
My biggest challenge is still consistent practice, and working range in small increments that doesn't ruin my endurance for eveything else in my routine, or vice-versa.


You are not alone! This is a challenge to probably all of us, from me, a more advanced amateur, to all the literal pro players here... and also, to the ambitious beginner. This challenge never goes away. It gets slightly easier, so I don't want to discourage any ambitious beginners (it DOES get better), but this challenge never fully disappears!
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Rod Haney
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2021 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HackAmateur wrote:
Rod Haney wrote:
A lot has been mentioned about strength but I have not found that to be more than an equal part of the equation to me. To me it has been more about learning how to coordinate to keep the lips in line with the breath. This involves keeping the teeth open and the lips in line to receive the air. Without that no method can work to achieve upper register. If teeth or tongue interfere with breath to the lips, range will suffer in direct proportion to the amount of interference. If the lips receive air properly it seems more a matter of developing corner memory and coordination to amount of breath applied. The strength and coordination has been helped by playing softly in upper register. I am simply applying the 2 aperture theory of the Stevens system, no more than that / and I can now ~”play” dbl high c and up after 3 or so months. It simply corrected a mp placement issue and opened my jaw a little more. I’m not saying my high notes are anything I can use ina gig as accuracy simply doesn’t exist, but I’m hitting good notes waay up there. I hope I can build on this to bring more and more usable notes. I don’t think you could call this a method but it sure make sense to explore it. It’s all based on simply putting the lips where they can best respond. I wish someone had shown me this in 64’ when I started.


I believe it!

But, you already had strong enough chops before adopting the Stevens System. If your chops weren't developed already, no theory would have worked very well for you. And that's what I'm saying here.

There are players with barely any development in their chops looking for "secrets" to expanding their range, and for them, there's no technique that will have them blasting out anything above High C or High D, because their chops aren't developed yet.

You had been playing for years and had great chops, so of course expanding your range truly was 'all technique'. That's why the Stevens System worked for you, but it probably wouldn't work for your average high school 10th grader who practices less than a half hour per day... they'd get frustrated and claim Stevens System "doesn't work" because Stevens System (or Maggio or anything else) can't give somebody strong chops. Chops have to be built from persistence and dedicated practice, proper fundamentals, etc., over time.

You had already put in that work, so you already had the chops.


Actually I may have had the strength but without the 2 apertures working correctly you will not get the air to the lips to get the range. It may be a technique or a theory, but the whole of the truth is if your teeth block air or both lips aren’t positioned correctly you will never come close to your potential range. And it’s not only range but the better resonance you achieve. It’s just the right way to start. Where the lips go to achieve improvement is another matter (hint :?leverage) but air should not be restricted by jaw/teeth opening and lips should be positioned between teeth to best respond. It would be perfect to teach this to beginners but I had to make some changes that I’d drilled in over time. Can anyone punch a hole in this if someone please do. I think a lot of better players would be coming up if it was taught from day 1, at least a larger # of good players.
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Trumpetingbynurture
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HackAmateur wrote:
lipshurt wrote:
Regarding “a disservice is being done to trumpet players”....... man that is some weird line of talk.

Nobody thinks that players either top out at D or can go up to Double C, one or the other. Nobody thinks that, nobody says that, nobody is like that.

Even people on the “internet” are not that bizarre. The premise is whacked.


Use the 'search' function to prove yourself wrong. Not just on this website, but also on a mainstream search engine like Google.


I'm with LipsHurt. I've been ghosting this forum for 15 odd years, and I don't get the impression that the summary you presented is accurate to how people talk about range on the instrument.

A lot of people do find High D to be a place they naturally start to stall out, but the people who get stuck there also don't have much interest in spending time developing beyond there.

Most people start out stuck on C in the staff. Then it's the E or G ontop the staff they're stuck at. Then it's an A, then a C, then a D, then High F, then G, then Double A, then Double C, then Double D, then G over double C.... etc.

The High D stalling point as far as I can tell tends to be for section classical player using very large mouthpieces who don't really have any reason to play above the Eb in Haydn, and find that if they spend too much time working on their high range, it impacts their playing down the bottom end in a negative way... Which they can't afford to have happen when they're getting paid to play in an orchestra and sound great playing in the middle register... So they 1) have no reason to push it and 2) good reasons to avoid working at it.
Then what eventually sometimes happens is that they decide they'd really like to play the brandenburg concerto, and they spend some time on it, take some lessons, work it out, and discover they can play higher, it just requires work and maintainance and a different mouthpiece to do it with any confidence. And they learn how to get back in the groove for their normal playing after working out up there, and their upper register goes up, and up, and up.

Or they are just happy to stay in their lane and make the most of their range to High D which is completely respectable and all they really need to do their job at a high level.

But yeah, i don't really know anyone who really believes that they couldn't play higher if they really made the effort. I don't mean they'd be Maynard - that requires specialisation - but everyone can get to Double C with patience and guidance.

The reason some people develop it and others don't, imo is that people choose to specialise, often in whatever their natural strengths are. If your upper register came easily, you probably get calls to come an play lead charts. So you probably don't care about being able to play carnival of venice and spend most of your time practicing your upper register (the thing that brings in the $$). And if you played carnival of venice as a 12 year old like Sergei Nakariakov, you probably don't care about being able to play a Double C.

*Shrugs*
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HackAmateur
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trumpetingbynurture wrote:


I'm with LipsHurt. I've been ghosting this forum for 15 odd years, and I don't get the impression that the summary you presented is accurate to how people talk about range on the instrument.

A lot of people do find High D to be a place they naturally start to stall out, but the people who get stuck there also don't have much interest in spending time developing beyond there.


This isn't necessarily true, though. High D is a range barrier that happens to most people. Lots of players, even on this forum, have posted here because they've been frustrated about the High D range barrier. It's a very real barrier, but not everybody is stuck there because they don't want more semitones of range.

Maybe some of the classical type players don't really care about it, but even they usually have a pretty strong High E in their pockets.

Some of the classical type players even have a fully developed upper register, but usually those are soloists (by "fully developed upper register" I mean they have a Double C).

Quote:
Most people start out stuck on C in the staff. Then it's the E or G ontop the staff they're stuck at. Then it's an A, then a C, then a D, then High F, then G, then Double A, then Double C, then Double D, then G over double C.... etc.


It doesn't just skip from High D to High F like that. Once they surpass High D, it's the High E where players usually top out... because that High E partial is a well known squirrely partial that is hard to slot correctly even after you can reliably play it. Personally, I'm at the "range break" as people call it. I'm at that Double G (G above High C) brick wall.

On my journey to my current range, where I have a reliable High F# with fresh chops, I definitely didn't skip from High D to High F. Nope. That High E was ROUGH to surpass. Took a lot of time and effort and persistence. I did NOT have a High F the moment I surpassed a High D, but I guess results may vary depending on the player and their facial/dental physiology. I still haven't gotten that Double A yet, haven't played a Double A in my life, so of course, I'm still on my range journey!

Quote:
The High D stalling point as far as I can tell tends to be for section classical player using very large mouthpieces who don't really have any reason to play above the Eb in Haydn, and find that if they spend too much time working on their high range, it impacts their playing down the bottom end in a negative way... Which they can't afford to have happen when they're getting paid to play in an orchestra and sound great playing in the middle register...


If it's impacting their middle register in a negative way, I'd guess they're not doing something that they SHOULD be doing. For example, a lot of middle register tone-oriented exercises. If you're working a lot on your middle register tone as a force of habit, then working on high range won't negatively affect your middle register at all. If anything, it'll make it more efficient. So, I think this is a misconception if the section classical player is afraid their middle register will suffer if they gain some high note semitones.

Quote:
So they 1) have no reason to push it and 2) good reasons to avoid working at it.


There isn't a "good reason" to avoid working at it, at least up until the range break (G above High C). There's no good reason not to work on a solid High E or three semitones higher. But, number 1 makes sense to me. If they literally have no need for those notes and they're getting paid decent money to play, well yeah I get it why they wouldn't work on it.

Quote:
Then what eventually sometimes happens is that they decide they'd really like to play the brandenburg concerto, and they spend some time on it, take some lessons, work it out, and discover they can play higher, it just requires work and maintainance and a different mouthpiece to do it with any confidence. And they learn how to get back in the groove for their normal playing after working out up there, and their upper register goes up, and up, and up.


They might not need a mouthpiece change, but I definitely see your point on that. With my Bob Reeves, that High F# is absolutely brilliant and requires normal effort. With my Schilke 15, that High F# requires max effort almost. lol

Quote:
The reason some people develop it and others don't, imo is that people choose to specialise, often in whatever their natural strengths are. If your upper register came easily, you probably get calls to come an play lead charts. So you probably don't care about being able to play carnival of venice and spend most of your time practicing your upper register (the thing that brings in the $$). And if you played carnival of venice as a 12 year old like Sergei Nakariakov, you probably don't care about being able to play a Double C.


TRUE. As for me, I'd prefer playing 2nd trumpet in the settings where Lead Charts exist, because I'm not a high note specialist for one thing, but for two, because I like solos. Most solo stuff goes to the 2nd trumpeter in those 'big band' and 'jazz' types of settings.

Even if I could play Lead Charts very well, I'd still probably want 2nd trumpet.[/quote]
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JetJaguar
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HackAmateur wrote:
lipshurt wrote:
Regarding “a disservice is being done to trumpet players”....... man that is some weird line of talk.

Nobody thinks that players either top out at D or can go up to Double C, one or the other. Nobody thinks that, nobody says that, nobody is like that.

Even people on the “internet” are not that bizarre. The premise is whacked.


Use the 'search' function to prove yourself wrong. Not just on this website, but also on a mainstream search engine like Google.


Can you provide some examples, Hack?
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HackAmateur
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Joined: 10 Jul 2021
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Location: Kentucky

PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JetJaguar wrote:
HackAmateur wrote:
lipshurt wrote:
Regarding “a disservice is being done to trumpet players”....... man that is some weird line of talk.

Nobody thinks that players either top out at D or can go up to Double C, one or the other. Nobody thinks that, nobody says that, nobody is like that.

Even people on the “internet” are not that bizarre. The premise is whacked.


Use the 'search' function to prove yourself wrong. Not just on this website, but also on a mainstream search engine like Google.


Can you provide some examples, Hack?


Almost everything on YouTube about how to build high range on the trumpet is a great starting point. Search on YouTube... 9 results out of 10 will be bullcrap that doesn't work unless you already have good chops, or bullcrap that doesn't work even if you DO have the chops.

1 out of 10 results will be actual good advice. Go look. I'm not joking.
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Crazy Finn
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HackAmateur wrote:
Almost everything on YouTube about how to build high range on the trumpet is a great starting point. Search on YouTube... 9 results out of 10 will be bullcrap that doesn't work unless you already have good chops, or bullcrap that doesn't work even if you DO have the chops..


Well, yeah.

Frankly, there's a lot of garbage on YouTube - regardless of musical instrument instruction and whatnot.

Maybe because I'm a little older and didn't grow up with the internet, it's never occurred to me to look on YouTube for trumpet instruction. Part of that is because I studied it in college and also taught myself for nearly 2 decades and know that almost ANY online instruction in trumpet is difficult and almost impossible.

Now, YouTube is great - I've fixed things on my Bike with YouTube and other small tasks as well. I've even pondered dinking around with simple instruments with YouTube instruction (Cajon, for example). But, I'd never try to learn violin or cello or flute by watching YouTube videos.

Maybe the kids do. I always told my students to not try to learn their instruments from these things. It's a great resource for finding artists and performances to listen to. God, I remember hunting down trumpet LPs and CDs when shopping on trips, because that was the only way to get them - there were no online catalogs or Amazon, let alone downloading MP3s.

Anyway, maybe that's what people do. Of course it's going to be mostly a total fail.

To be clear, I'm talking about one-way, YouTube instructional videos. I'm sure that online teaching, via Zoom or something along those lines, can work reasonably well - though not as well as in person.
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HaveTrumpetWillTravel
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm trying to get my kids on trumpet and I find youtube has some uses. I've had them watch other people explaining some core skills (articulation), I've had them do play alongs or listen to songs to help them learn to hear the melody, and I show them videos just for fun.

For me, the big help has been on learning new music, which would be much harder for me without youtube. I also enjoy watching online masterclasses and the like.

That said, I haven't found the high note videos to be particularly helpful, except to explain some ideas (aperture, Bobby Shew's wedge breathing, playing with an "eee" or hissing noise on higher notes, etc.).
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 4:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HaveTrumpetWillTravel wrote:
...
That said, I haven't found the high note videos to be particularly helpful, except to explain some ideas (aperture, Bobby Shew's wedge breathing, playing with an "eee" or hissing noise on higher notes, etc.).

----------------------------------------
My experience is that there is some value in the various youtube videos, BUT it requires careful watching, listening, and 'deciphering/translating/interpreting' of what is shown and said. I don't know if inexperienced players are capable of doing the 'filtering' that is needed.

If a performer DOES something that you want to emulate, then carefully watch to see how it is accomplished, which might be different than what is said.

I find that in a 15 minute video there are only a few minutes of really good content, the rest is just chatter and fluff.
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kalijah
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
1 out of 10 results will be actual good advice. Go look. I'm not joking.


I agree. If even that.

There is a common theme in most YouTube videos for players.

1. The lips/embouchure is rarely mentioned or given due credit. (And no, air is no substitute for proper embouchure function.)
2. Increasing efforts are emphasized. Not increasing efficiency.
3. The "system" is explained metaphorically but expected to be accepted as literally.
4. Nonsensical "mechanics" about the system. Primarily in regard to air mechanics. Usually due to misunderstood and undefined terms and buzzwords. Example: "compression", and "air volume" are poorly used if defined at all. Presenters use "air volume" but are actually attempting to convey "flow". Flow and volume are not the same thing.

Most videos are a nonsensical "buzzword" and cliché festival.

If you can wade through that endless exercise, and not attempt to accept things as literal, you might occasionally pick up a good practice tip here or there.

Quote:
wedge breathing, playing with an "eee" or hissing noise on higher notes, etc.).


This is what I was referring to. Extreme "ee" tongue position destroys air power and efficiency (no, it does not "compress" the air) and requires that loss of air power to be made-up with more blowing effort. Stop hissing and you will not need the excessive exhalation effort. (The "wedge" is simply high abdominal exhalation effort)
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Tpt_Guy
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Presenters use "air volume" but are actually attempting to convey "flow". Flow and volume are not the same thing.


Isn't flow a function of volume and time?

Whenever any of my teachers has said something along the lines of "use more air" I've always taken that to mean I need to push more air through the embouchure - increase the air flow.
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