• FAQ  • Search  • Memberlist  • Usergroups   • Register   • Profile  • Log in to check your private messages  • Log in 

Parts of a trumpet bell


Goto page Previous  1, 2
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Horns
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
OldSchoolEuph
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 07 Apr 2012
Posts: 2426

PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jenny Lee wrote:
"Thinner bells give the player more feedback and offer a more piercing quality but are less efficient and make maintaining proper intonation more challenging for the player."


That seems more accurate - though the efficiency this refers to is the percentage of energy directed forward (which is the goal), while to the player, the leak-back to their ears tends to control how loud they play and thus, while not serving the primary function, is none the less how anyone who has not learned to use a live space or flat wall to assess a horn perceives efficiency. (so they may disagree)

Jenny Lee wrote:
Would it be more accurate to write "...They also present less resistance and, therefore, require less effort allowing for more endurance"?


This is a complex topic. Perceived resistance is hugely complicated, and the bell, at several of its identified regions, can influence it. This issue however is more a matter of inertia and thus response - how much energy it takes to start a note (to "speak") and to change partials. A lighter bell, having less inertia, has a slight influence on how easily the system will shift from one vibratory state to another. That can, I suppose, be lumped under resistance, as it is all energy in the end, but it is a little different than the classic sense of how much energy the horn takes overall. I would have said (modifying yours): They also speak with less effort and can therefore improve endurance

Jenny Lee wrote:
We've seen some sources use the terms "faster taper" and "tighter taper" interchangeably.


I think I see the problem - and it is a common one. Faster taper results in the sides of the tube moving apart further in a given distance (a steeper wall slope makes for a wider tube). That is the opposite of being tighter. A tighter taper is a slower taper.

Jenny Lee wrote:
So are "rose brass" and "red brass" used interchangeably, or are they two different alloys?


The rough alloy names are used rather freely and different people have different tables. What I have always used is this:
French Brass: roughly 66% Cu, 34% Zn (and maybe some others in trace)
Yellow Brass: roughly 70% Cu, 30% Zn
Casing Brass: 70% Cu +/-, 28% Zn +/- & 1% Pb or more
Gold Brass: >75 to 80% Cu, balance Zn
Rose Brass 85% Cu, 15% Zn
Red Brass 90% and above Cu, balance Zn
Copper bells may be pure Cu, or sometimes have other metals, but in amounts adding up to only a couple percent

Then there are the bronze alloys, using tin in place of some or all of the zinc along with other elements. Bronzes are completely non-standard in bell making these days, so it's a matter of "like the bronze used by company X" more than any alloy naming.
_________________
Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com

2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Jenny Lee
Regular Member


Joined: 06 Jun 2021
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OldSchoolEuph wrote:
...The rough alloy names are used rather freely and different people have different tables. What I have always used is this:
French Brass: roughly 66% Cu, 34% Zn (and maybe some others in trace)
Yellow Brass: roughly 70% Cu, 30% Zn
Casing Brass: 70% Cu +/-, 28% Zn +/- & 1% Pb or more
Gold Brass: >75 to 80% Cu, balance Zn
Rose Brass 85% Cu, 15% Zn
Red Brass 90% and above Cu, balance Zn
Copper bells may be pure Cu, or sometimes have other metals, but in amounts adding up to only a couple percent

Then there are the bronze alloys, using tin in place of some or all of the zinc along with other elements. Bronzes are completely non-standard in bell making these days, so it's a matter of "like the bronze used by company X" more than any alloy naming.


Ah I see. Thanks for clarifying these points about taper, resistance and alloys.

Yes, I was under the impression that yellow brass, gold brass, rose brass, red brass and (nearly) pure copper covered the vast majority of bells made these days. Glad to see that omitting bronze alloy options isn't going to leave most readers dry.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Halflip
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 1862
Location: WI

PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jenny Lee wrote:
Glad to see that omitting bronze alloy options isn't going to leave most readers dry.


You might want to consider that many Blackburn trumpets feature ambronze bells, which might make that particular bronze alloy worthy of inclusion.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
OldSchoolEuph
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 07 Apr 2012
Posts: 2426

PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clarification: By "non-standard", I meant that the percentages vary. Bronze bells are not uncommon on high end horns.
_________________
Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com

2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Jenny Lee
Regular Member


Joined: 06 Jun 2021
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OldSchoolEuph wrote:
Clarification: By "non-standard", I meant that the percentages vary. Bronze bells are not uncommon on high end horns.


Oh I see. In this case, I think Halflip is right. I think it's best to include a mention of bronze bells. Though since their compositions vary and I've run out of space, I think I'll omit it from the chart of brass alloys and instead include mention of it where we've discussed nickel silver.

Thanks again.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Halflip
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 1862
Location: WI

PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jenny Lee wrote:
In this case, I think Halflip is right.


Halflip is always right.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Horns All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group