Tuning Trouble

jhatpro · Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:14 am Post subject: Tuning Trouble

I have a nice vintage Conn cornet. From the SN it was built after the fire in 1911 so it should be a New Invention but the tube between the 2nd and 3rd valve is angled so, if I read the Conn Loyalist correctly, it could be a New Wonder.

Whatever it really is, I'm having a hard time getting it to play in tune. It has two sets of slides, one set longer than the other. I assume these are to play in A.

No matter which set of slides I use the intonation is erratic. Is this a mouthpiece issue or a pitch issue or both?

Bottom line: if you have one of these antiques have you been able to get it to play in tune and, if so, how?

Thanks for your help!
_________________
Jim Hatfield

"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus

2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle

camelbrass · Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:32 am Post subject:

Is it a high pitch cornet with a set of slides to convert it to low pitch?

Just a thought.

Regards,

Trevor

jhatpro · Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:38 am Post subject:

Good question. It has two sets of slides and I assumed they were to enable playing in either A or Bb. The horn is clearly stamped LP which, in those days, I believe was 435 hz.

When I put the longer slides in it seems to play better but intonation is still off on some notes.

Interestingly, the horn has only one forward tuning slide, the one closest to the receiver. The other alternate slides are rear tuning slide, and 1st, 2nd, 3rd valve slides.

So I'm still intona-flexed.
_________________
Jim Hatfield

"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus

2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle

Richard III · Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:46 am Post subject:

Which notes are off?
_________________
Richard

King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece

jhatpro · Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:57 am Post subject:

No matter which slides I use or where I set the slides all of the notes are either a few cents flat or sharp.

I'm using a short shank mouthpiece. The horn is in wonderful condition with excellent compression.

And, for what its worth, my chops are in as good shape as ever. Not Doc-like to be sure, but average to above average semi-pro caliber.

I'm inclined to think its a pitch issue.
_________________
Jim Hatfield

"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus

2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle

Richard III · Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:17 am Post subject:

I've had horns that were flat from mid staff down and sharp from the same point up. Not fun.

The reason I asked is that usually it is not the length of the mouthpiece, it is the bore size.

I have a cornet where the D in the staff is flat. Another where the A in the staff is flat. Another and this is quite common, the A above the staff is sharp. And then there is the F on top of the staff being sharp, but that is really common.

Anyway, the answer for most of those is a more open bore on the mouthpiece.

My flat A in the staff is on a modern cornet designed for BBB use. Pretty much requires a Wick.

The others are vintage cornets that need period specific mouthpieces. My Conn "The Wonder" from 1903 really loves a late 1800's mouthpiece. With that mouthpiece is is rock solid with intonation.
_________________
Richard

King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece

deleted_user_687c31b · New Member Joined: 03 Apr 1996 Posts: 0

jhatpro · Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:31 am Post subject:

Thanks for your help,, guys.

Regarding mouthpieces, I have the Conn 18 and Conn 19 that came with the horn and seem to be original, but who knows for sure with a 110 year old horn.

Regarding the slides and their deployment, I think I have them installed properly but I will double-check.

As for bore, the horn was sold to me as a New Invention Circus Bore. The bore is not marked but, using other horns/slides to guesstimate, I can at least say its not a small bore.
_________________
Jim Hatfield

"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus

2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle

jhatpro · Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:01 am Post subject:

Success! I put the long, forward slide in and made sure the other slides were the longer ones as well. I used a T1 tuning app on my iPhone to check that the A is registering as 440 Hz and with only slight adjustment of the two tuning slides I got most of the notes into the green.

The always troublesome 1-3 and 1-2-3 combinations take some lipping (no throw ring on this horn!). But I'm getting it to play in tune well enough that the rest of the band may stop squawking about it.

Thanks again for your help, everyone!
_________________
Jim Hatfield

"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus

2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle

deleted_user_687c31b · New Member Joined: 03 Apr 1996 Posts: 0

Glad to hear you found a way to make it work. Enjoy your cornet!