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Valve alignment at home?


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laurent
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
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Location: Barcelona (Spain)

PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A borescope is probably the best tool to check the valve alignment. Two years ago (or three?) I've bought an usb borescope on ebay for about 30 euros, and it works pretty well!
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so what
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Joined: 13 Oct 2004
Posts: 617
Location: near Dallas

PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lipshurt wrote:
I have always thought that the best alignments are done by aligning the CENTER of the ports, not the edges. When you go by the edges all kinds of things can happen:

1) the edges can be beveled on the piston which is pretty common, making it hard to visually get a handle on how the circles are lining up.
2) many horns have piston ports that are not the same size as the tubing port. That means if you line up one of the edges, you are off on the other side (top/bottom edges)
3) measuring from the edges does is not better than visually lining them up, for the same basic reasons, that being that where the edge lies sometimes tells you the wrong thing.

If you have a tool that finds the exact center of the ports (a cone fixed at a 90 degree angle to a stick going up thru the hole in the top cap with a surface that find the location of the bottom surface of the cap, and also the surface of the top bumpers) you can easily find the thickness of material need to get the centers of the ports aligned. It's better if you can alter the cap, stem or buttons so that one thickness of felt is used in all three valves. That is what some people do.

A tool like that is pretty easy to make. It's harder to get set up to machine the caps and buttons etc, but that is an extra that you don't really need.

The mirror and light is still a good way to do it though, and gets you to with .005 pretty quick, as long as there are no edge issues. That is basically good enough. Every trumpet player can do it at home. It's way easier than learning a scale for instance.


Doug, Thanks for the great idea. You sure do have a lot of insight into the inside of a trumpet/cornet. Thanks !
-Mark Walberg
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blbaumgarn
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Joined: 26 Jul 2017
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:33 pm    Post subject: valve alignment at home Reply with quote

There are excellent contributions and thoughts here. Thanks to everyone for taking up this topic.
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dstpt
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Joined: 14 Dec 2005
Posts: 1272

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

laurent wrote:
A borescope is probably the best tool to check the valve alignment. Two years ago (or three?) I've bought an usb borescope on ebay for about 30 euros, and it works pretty well!

Here is an Amazon link for a $20 borescope…

SHEKAR
[UPGRADED]0.21 Inch Slim Camera Head USB Endoscope Borescope with Semi Rigid Cable USB Type C Adapter for PC Notebook and Android Device(5M/16.4ft Cable)

https://www.amazon.com/UPGRADED-Endoscope-Borescope-Adapter-Notebook/dp/B0776ND6GB/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1517498660&sr=8-2&keywords=small+borescope

Would this be one that you could use to check everything necessary beforẻ doing a valve alignment or having one done professionally? I would like to go through all of my horns to see which ones would are in dire need of a VA. I have had some horns done professionally by Charlie Melk and Josh Landress, so this is mainly for the ones that haven’t been done. Or would those of you who have done this still say that using a mirror and light is better than using a borescope? Another thing I’d like to do with one of these is to check for solder beads inside each instrument. I don’t have the $$ to send off all of my instruments to have this kind of service done professionally, but I do want to see if some of my horns are really bad and start by having them serviced.
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plankowner110
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Joined: 12 Jun 2003
Posts: 3620

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yamaha 6310Z valve alignment:

Get three new black genuine Yamaha trumpet top valve cap felts and three new small white genuine Yamaha trumpet piston felts and your valves will be aligned. Guaranteed. You can buy these at any full service repair shop that services Yamaha trumpets and buys these common stock parts directly from Yamaha. Then just play the horn.
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scottfsmith
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Joined: 27 Jun 2015
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Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dstpt wrote:
Would this be one that you could use to check everything ..


Yes, I have a $20 or so Amazon USB borescope which I have used to successfully align valves. You need to take all valves out and put in one at a time to check -- you need to see "through" the 3rd valve casing for example to make sure the 2nd valve is good.

I'm too cheap to buy the big kit of all pad thicknesses so what I do is by hand sandpaper the foam or felt pads down until they fit. They are not the easiest thing to sandpaper evenly but with practice you can get OK at it.

In terms of checking the rest of the bore for solder beads etc, you can see most of the bore with it. The main missing bits are the bell and tuning slide crooks. It would be worth a few extra bucks for one with a more flexible or smaller head, but I have never seen one.
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lipshurt
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Joined: 24 Feb 2008
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Location: vista ca

PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah the bore scopes can’t get around a curve, and with the 90 mirror attadhement you can see around a corner, but the quality of the one I got was worse than using a dental mirror. The picture was big on iPad, but resolution is lame. A dental mirror is easier, and actually better that my cheap borescope
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Jenny Lee
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Joined: 06 Jun 2021
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

herpderp wrote:
crzytptman wrote:
You're in Orange county and Flip is a short drive down the coast - $125. Once he's inside your horn, good things happen. Plus, you get to chat with a master - good things happen to you. Money well spent.
Oh, and your horn will play better when it leaves!


I might have to go the Flip route! I'll shoot him an email and see how it goes from there. Thanks for the recommendation. I just assumed that everyone was priced as much as Reeves so I wanted to try my hand at doing it myself, but Flip has some great prices and it would be nice to hang out with someone like that!

Cool.


Anyone know what a PVA typically costs these days?
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Andy Cooper
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Joined: 15 Nov 2001
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Location: Terre Haute, IN USA

PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

herpderp wrote:
My trumpet is pretty bad out of alignment, I got the dental mirror to check things out further. My only problem now is finding a suitable material to use as a felt. I would need to buy a punch set and some kind of felt material? This seems rather expensive. Can someone guide me to the cheapest route possible? Any suggestions would be awesome. Also, thank you so much for all the great info!!!! Thanks!


https://www.jlsmithco.com/

All sorts of good stuff available to anyone - you don't have to be in the repair business.
(In a pinch, you can go to a hobby store and buy sheets of firm foam, cork, and felt and a small hole punch.Use scissors to cut the outside of the washer.)

You should also have calipers to measure the thickness of your washer material and a little TV camera with angle mirror that will plug in to your phone or computer ($10 or so) to be inserted in the slides to see the upstroke alignment.

After getting a good visual alignment, play the horn and adjust.
I also use 1/8" set screws in the valve stems instead of shimming the top felts.
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LittleRusty
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Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12647
Location: Gardena, Ca

PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zombie thread alert. The OP started this thread 12 years ago. Even though there are a lot of good tips in the thread, the post that woke this up, in my opinion, should probably been posted in a new thread.
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