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delano Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 3118 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 10:50 am Post subject: The greatest of them all! |
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There can only be one the greatest. There is nobody who can play something like this even close and I seriously doubt there will be anybody ever who can.
Listen only the first one minute and ten seconds and play it loud, this is it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjBUNyFKkJI&ab_channel=BethJustino
and yes, I know there is no perfect intonation and more, he is not in good health and will die in less than a year, but the sound, the timing and most of all the meaning of his playing, show his very lonely place at the top. |
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fabiopereirabr Regular Member
Joined: 21 Jul 2012 Posts: 58
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Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 11:09 am Post subject: Re: The greatest of them all! |
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Very nice Delano!! Miles music was a speech, saying so much with just a few notes.. _________________ Fabio |
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CTeneyck Regular Member
Joined: 23 Dec 2001 Posts: 80 Location: Framingham, MA
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Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 11:19 am Post subject: |
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great clip - thank you for posting |
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djpearlman Veteran Member
Joined: 30 Aug 2002 Posts: 461 Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico
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Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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I agree, Delano. No one but Armstrong ever came close. _________________ Dan Pearlman
Santa Fe, NM
- Monette Cornette
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- Monette mouthpieces
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5NafoVeXrsRm-fOhKaIpnA |
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deleted_user_687c31b New Member
Joined: 03 Apr 1996 Posts: 0
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Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 8:17 pm Post subject: Re: The greatest of them all! |
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delano wrote: | and yes, I know there is no perfect intonation and more, he is not in good health and will die in less than a year, but the sound, the timing and most of all the meaning of his playing, show his very lonely place at the top. |
And yet it's still much beyond what most of us can hope to achieve.
Nice video, thanks for sharing it. |
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Bryant Jordan Veteran Member
Joined: 16 Aug 2015 Posts: 410 Location: Utah, USA
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Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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I tried bending down like that while playing, and I sounded just like Miles. |
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trickg Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Jan 2002 Posts: 5677 Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
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Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 7:07 am Post subject: |
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I've never been into Miles. For some guys the sun rises and sets with Miles Davis. I can't tell you the number of times someone, after learning that I was a trumpet player would ask, "oh - so you like Miles Davis?" No. Not really. And I've tried. Either I just don't understand what I'm listening to, and therefore don't have the ability to appreciate it, or if it's something else.
It's undeniable what he did as a musician - he pushed the envelope, took things in new directions, and put together some really fabulous bands - but Miles just has never been my cup of tea.
That recording sounds decent though - it's some of the better playing I've heard from him. _________________ Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler
"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP |
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trickg Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Jan 2002 Posts: 5677 Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
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Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 7:08 am Post subject: |
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Bryant Jordan wrote: | I tried bending down like that while playing, and I sounded just like Miles. |
Nice. _________________ Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler
"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP |
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Croquethed Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Dec 2013 Posts: 613 Location: Oakville, CT
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Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 7:54 am Post subject: |
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I looked in my old posts to see if I had mentioned this before, because I don't want to bore you all. I couldn't find it, so here goes.
When i started my comeback, I also bought a copy of Miles's autobio because I thought it would help me appreciate the culture of the modern trumpet. I had my pre-conceptions about what Miles was like and what kind of people he did and didn't like, etc.
Imagine my surprise when along about page 122 he mentions hanging out in Gil Evans's apartment with his good friend Blossom Dearie.
Blossom grew up in a small farming town in the Catskills and graduated with the Cairo High School class of 1942. My mom was valedictorian of that class and Blossom's best friend.
It gave me a whole new multifaceted appreciation, good and bad, of who Miles was and what he did - the soundtrack for Elevator to the Gallows and the stuff he did with John Lee Hooker for another soundtrack are years' worth of lessons alone. Wallace Roney came to Old Lyme about a year before he died and I asked him if he had ever met Blossom. He said no, but that "Miles really loved her."
And I made sure my wife got me a Harmon mute for Christmas last year. Finally. |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8914 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 9:30 am Post subject: |
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I recently watched a documentary about Miles. My son, who plays trumpet walked in just before he played 'Round Midnight. A few days later my son said that he thought it was amazing, and he rarely gushes about trumpet players. Needless to say I downloaded a number of tunes featured in that documentary.
I'm a big fan of Kind of Blue and Sketches of Spain, but I've not really gotten into later works. I confess to being soundly turned off by some of the stage antics I saw in his later years. I know he had his challenges but I hated watching him publicly abuse other players.
I do confess that the documentary has made me somewhat more sympathetic to him and intrigued by his body of work. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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delano Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 3118 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 10:40 am Post subject: |
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Though it's weird to me but some people, trumpetplayers or not, seem to have problems with the music of Miles Davis. Is his music too complicated? Is it the person? Or something else. In my view it is a kind of experience you have to allow entrance to your soul (or ego).
To describe that kind of experience I borrow something from what Eddie Condon wrote in his "We called it music", chapter 'Young man with a cap', page 84:
"How about sitting in Bix?" one of the players said. Beiderbecke smiled like an embarrassed kid and muttered something. Then he got up on the stand and walked over and sat down-at the piano. "Clarinet Marmalade,"somebody said. Bix nodded and hit the keys.
Then it happened. All my life I had been listening to music, particularly on the piano. But I had never heard something remotely resembling what Beiderbecke played. For the first time I realized that music isn't all the same, that some players play so differently from others that it becomes an entirely new set of sounds. |
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delano Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 3118 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 11:07 am Post subject: |
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I want to add that another point is that the way I see it, Miles Davis didn't want to be a trumpetplayer like the kind of player the majority (?) on this forum seem to want to be. Certainly not. |
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rothman Veteran Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2014 Posts: 329
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Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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delano wrote: | I want to add that another point is that the way I see it, Miles Davis didn't want to be a trumpetplayer like the kind of player the majority (?) on this forum seem to want to be. Certainly not. |
That's undoubtedly true. My only question..
Is it possible the consensus of Miles grew from an earlier period and gradually took on a life of it's own, where no shortcomings were even imaginable in his playing, though he certainly qualifies as a good player. Further, can you imagine visiting a club tomorrow night w Miles headlining, and seated at the bar are -- Clifford Brown, Booker Little, Fats Navarro in the same club.. Would you still regard him at the pinnacle of all in that company ?
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PH Bill Adam/Carmine Caruso Forum Moderator
Joined: 26 Nov 2001 Posts: 5860 Location: New Albany, Indiana
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Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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rothman wrote: | delano wrote: | I want to add that another point is that the way I see it, Miles Davis didn't want to be a trumpetplayer like the kind of player the majority (?) on this forum seem to want to be. Certainly not. |
That's undoubtedly true. My only question..
Is it possible the consensus of Miles grew from an earlier period and gradually took on a life of it's own, where no shortcomings were even imaginable in his playing, though he certainly qualifies as a good player. Further, can you imagine visiting a club tomorrow night w Miles headlining, and seated at the bar are -- Clifford Brown, Booker Little, Fats Navarro in the same club.. Would you still regard him at the pinnacle of all in that company ?
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As a creative jazz artist, undoubtedly. _________________ Bach trumpet artist-clinician
Clinical Professor of Jazz Trumpet, University of Illinois
Professor Emeritus of Jazz Studies, Indiana University Jacobs School of Music
Faculty Jamey Aebersold Jazz Workshops 1976-2019
JazzRetreats.com |
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GeorgeB Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Apr 2016 Posts: 1063 Location: New Glasgow, Nova Scotia
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Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 3:27 am Post subject: |
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Because of my age, I was more into the earlier players like Louis, James, Bobby Hackett, Eldridge, Butterfield, etc,. I was impressed with some of Miles early work, but like Charles, his later years were a turn off for me. But there is no doubt that he was a true artist. _________________ GeorgeB
1960s King Super 20 Silversonic
2016 Manchester Brass Custom
1938-39 Olds Recording
1942 Buescher 400 Bb trumpet
1952 Selmer Paris 21 B
1999 Conn Vintage One B flat trumpet
2020 Getzen 490 Bb
1962 Conn Victor 5A cornet |
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delano Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 3118 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 3:45 am Post subject: |
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quote rothman:
My only question..
Is it possible the consensus of Miles grew from an earlier period and gradually took on a life of it's own, where no shortcomings were even imaginable in his playing, though he certainly qualifies as a good player. Further, can you imagine visiting a club tomorrow night w Miles headlining, and seated at the bar are -- Clifford Brown, Booker Little, Fats Navarro in the same club.. Would you still regard him at the pinnacle of all in that company ?
Your first question: if you are right that would be an immense achievement, maybe even a miracle that someones reputation grows that big that no one dare to criticize you anymore. But I don't believe in miracles.
Second question, two things, Booker Little died at 23, Clifford Brown at 25, Fats Navarro at 27. Miles first great quintet was when he was 32. Though I am a big fan of especially Fats Navarro, we will never know which things these players could have achieved. Miles had 65 years for all his innovations.
Another thing is that Miles refused to be a lifelong club player, he had bigger ambitions, he wanted to be a star and I think that was justified. Without wanting to say anything negative about, Fats, Booker and Clifford, Miles belongs, IMO, to a category extraordinaire.
In ancient times composers were the top of the bill because that was the only possibility to hand over music in time. Nowadays with all the technic the role of performers is much and much bigger. So the worth of a player is not valued by how they play in a club but will be measured by their complete output, read recordings and other registrations. For that reason the reputation of Miles will grow and grow.
Last edited by delano on Fri Aug 06, 2021 4:30 am; edited 2 times in total |
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delano Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 3118 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 4:20 am Post subject: |
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GeorgeB wrote: | Because of my age, I was more into the earlier players like Louis, James, Bobby Hackett, Eldridge, Butterfield, etc,. I was impressed with some of Miles early work, but like Charles, his later years were a turn off for me. But there is no doubt that he was a true artist. |
I am not sure it has to do with age. I am 73 years old and started my musical life as a New Orleans trombone player.
I like Miles older work, my favourite of the first quintet/sextet is Milestones, Porgy and Bess is one of the greatest jazz records of all time (my number one) but the second great quintet is also unbelievable, my favourite: Miles Smiles with the unearthy Tony Williams. Complete different music.
Also the electric period of Miles is great with musicians like Herbie Hancock, Joe Zawinul, Keith Jarrett, Jack Dejohnette, Chick Corea, John Mclaughlin and more.
Miles was not only a great musician but also had a great feeling for form.
A New Orleans band is a form, the piano trio also a form. The jazz quintet is a form but it was Miles who used this form to explore the ultimate possibilities of it with his two great quintets (sometimes sextet).
After this period he changed the scene completely with the electric bands.
I suppose one of the aspects of Miles greatness was his insight what his fellow musicians were playing, he started them and stopped them when necessary. He had a great insight to keep the music straight and truthful. He was the boss by sheer ability. The man was also so sure in his playing.
He used to say that his musicians could practice at home as long as they didn't bring that stuff to the stage and the studio. Should be still a useful rule for lots of groups I hear nowadays.
BTW I also love the Tutu album and think it contains a real masterpiece:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iq8puA-syhY&ab_channel=MilesDavis-Topic
On 3.336 he plays a simple solo and between 4.01 and 4.25 some weird notes nobody can play that way and though I am 73, I love it! |
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GeorgeB Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Apr 2016 Posts: 1063 Location: New Glasgow, Nova Scotia
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Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 6:28 am Post subject: |
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I recall reading an interview quite some time ago where Miles was asked what he thought of Chet Baker and he said he liked Chet but he just didn't like the way white guys played. He explained why but I forget the details.
Anyway. delano, you mentioned some work Miles did and you interested me enough to look some stuff up on you tube. I will also listen to the video you posted.
George _________________ GeorgeB
1960s King Super 20 Silversonic
2016 Manchester Brass Custom
1938-39 Olds Recording
1942 Buescher 400 Bb trumpet
1952 Selmer Paris 21 B
1999 Conn Vintage One B flat trumpet
2020 Getzen 490 Bb
1962 Conn Victor 5A cornet |
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Jim19043 Veteran Member
Joined: 03 Feb 2020 Posts: 107 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:12 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for posting this terrific clip, Delano. I just finished reading "So What" and am starting "Milestones I," so getting this clip was very timely. I'm reasonably familiar with Mile's recordings from the 50's and 60's, but I want to explore his later work. _________________ Jim19043
1998 Bach Strad L180S72
GR 3MX |
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dr_trumpet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Nov 2001 Posts: 2533 Location: Cope, IN
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Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:44 am Post subject: |
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I post this with the utmost respect for all. I too tried to like Miles, and I do. And this clip is fantastic.
That said, Clifford Brown was and is the player that I look at in this way. It doesn't mean that anyone else is wrong, it's all preference.
I have a student who LOVES Lee Morgan, and I've never acquired that preference. It doesn't make my student's affinity any less valid.
That's what's great about music. We all can like who we like, have our own greats, our own favorites.
And we aren't wrong!
All best wishes,
Al _________________ Dr. Albert L. Lilly, III DM
Artist/Clinician for Vincent Bach Trumpets (Conn-Selmer)
Principal Trumpet, Hendricks Symphony (Avon, IN)
Arranger/Composer; Lilly Music |
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