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High D open or first valve?



 
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chapahi
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 12:18 pm    Post subject: High D open or first valve? Reply with quote

When playing lead lines that require a High D, do you play it open or with the first valve? Thanks in advance for any replies.
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Danbassin
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Depends on the horn and the harmonic context - to a certain extent. Some instruments slot really well with the first valve, some are better open. If the harmonic series of your instrument is reasonably true, the 9th harmonic (open) high D will be *a little bit* sharp, which can help this note in many circumstances. Mathematically, the 9th harmonic is about 4¢ sharp (“cents” break down a half-step into 100 parts) so this is a very small difference, and *Technically* below the comma of human hearing. We all, as trumpeters, know the dreaded 7th harmonic from splitting a high c, and ending up with a noticeably (about 31¢) flat Bb, so there you have a comparison for the respectively small tuning differences. That said, if you are, say in Concert Ab, and want to make a gorgeous sounding, true, Major 3rd at the end of a piece, or something similar, open on the high D may distort the chord.

What works best FOR YOU?
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Crazy Finn
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I play it the way that feels the best and is most in tune.

Most of the time it's first valve, but I've played horns were open is better.

The above post is correct, that intonation depends on context.
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Jaw04
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Depends on the horn and mouthpiece. I used to play it open on my Yamaha trumpet and ACB 3C and now I play it first valve on my X-13 and AR mouthpiece.
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Craig Swartz
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2021 5:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It also depends (for me) on from where I'm coming and to where I'm going. In a linear passage I usually use first finger, if for no other reason than because I've been playing those fingering patterns for nearly 50 years. If just camping there at the end of a tune, open works fine. Once in a while, my 1st finger attempts seem a bit flat, especially if I'm "pushing", or tired.

And, not jazz, but playing "Bride of the Waves" I use open horn for "high Ds at the end of the 3 octave jumps that end on a fermata D3. Works well on my cornets, ditto on trumpet and is secure, probably due to what Danbassin wrote above.

Still, the best way to get there is to be sure to "hear it" before you try to play it, and to make darn certain that the pitch from where you come is as solid as a rock as well. Good luck.
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trumpetjordy
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suppose the final answer for me would have to be: I use the fingering that is the most in tune and slots easiest depending on the musical context. This usually means playing high A's 3, high D's open, and the octave higher A on 2&3 for me (weird! but it's the best). Context can change intonation (I think somebody else already mentioned it) but here's something else~ when improvising or playing fast high-note lines through that high D area, I usually will finger D as 1 even if it is slightly out of tune. It's easier to play those fast lines with the traditional fingerings we all grew up with. If I need to hold the D for a quarter-note or longer, then I'll switch on impulse to the best option. I'm just happy to find that I'm not the only one out there who's over-analyzed this one! Some really good answers...
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c cup
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2022 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just last night I had an epiphany about this very question. If you guys are familiar with the Thad Jones tune "Us", it has a brass soli section that the lead part has a jump from top line F to high D. I have always struggled with accuracy on that lick. It is a little tougher because it comes after you have been blowing a while. Last night I decided to play the D open and I haven't missed it since. (Of course today it might suck😀). But it seems there are times to use alternate fingerings that really help. I have been playing A above the staff with third valve for years because it is more accurate for me. High G works great with Third valve and A above that works great for me with 1st valve. Probably other people would prefer a different combination. I know it is different for different people and horns, mouthpieces, etc. But it is something everyone should experiment with from time to time.
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dbacon
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2022 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DB

Last edited by dbacon on Sat Jun 18, 2022 4:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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kevin_soda
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2022 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm curious about flexibility and, specifically, shakes. Does anyone experience a difference in flexibility with one or the other fingering? And, what's the best option for shakes in C minor (concert Bb minor)?
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c cup
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2022 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can play C with 2 and 3 if it needs to be kind of in tune.
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Bill Ortiz
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2022 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with what Dave said-if it's a moving line I'll use 1st valve and on a sustained or longer note I play it open, which is better in tune with my horn/setup.
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kevin_soda
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2022 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kevin_soda wrote:
I'm curious about flexibility and, specifically, shakes. Does anyone experience a difference in flexibility with one or the other fingering? And, what's the best option for shakes in C minor (concert Bb minor)?


Sorry, I wasn't clear. I mean shakes on D in the key of C minor. So, 1st valve and open both wan to go to E natural...
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Matthew Anklan
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2022 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always use first valve. For me, playing it open gets a little bit out of control.
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trane1959
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2022 5:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FWIW, I have never had much success with any alternate fingerings above high C. I find the intended trumpet fingerings to be the easiest to slot and the most in tune. But hey, probably just me.
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Gonya
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2022 3:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It depends on the instrument. On my old horn, open felt better, but I always use first valve on my current horn. Each instrument will have different slots and intonation tendencies.
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