Exploring Flugelhorn Mouthpieces

[wesleyheath]

Longtime lurker, first time poster. I'm sure this topic has been discussed at length here, but I didn't find a thread that addressed my needs exactly.

Been playing as an amateur for 25 years. Got a flugelhorn (Yamaha 731) three or four years ago and love it. Maybe a bit bright in the grand scheme, but still a lot of fun to play.

My main mouthpiece has been a Yamaha 16F4 for the entire time. Last week on a whim, I purchased a couple of others that I hoped would offer contrasting experiences.

Mouthpiece 1 is a Curry 3FL-F. It feels very bright and crisp to me. I don't hate it but it wasn't quite what I was looking for.

Mouthpiece 2 is a Dennis Wick 4FL. This thing is like playing into a traffic cone. It mellows and darkens the horn significantly, but is very difficult for this amateur to play in the upper register.

I love the darkness of the DW, but the performance of the Curry and the Yamaha. Any other ideas? I'm very open-minded (including if you think I'm an idiot!). I'm trying not to drop $250 on a Monette or something, but if you think it will change my life, please tell me about it.

I'm grateful in advance for your guidance.

[Brassnose]

Personal take on the question by a fellow amateur with ca. 35 years of flugel experience as a doubler in mostly commercial settings: I played a Wick 3 FL for a while and didn’t like it. Uncomfortable rim with a sharp inner edge, very muffled and muddy sound. I understand that a lot of people like this very diffuse sound but not me, so I was looking for something to give a flugel sound with more clarity.

Here’s my suggestions:

GR FL series (on the pricier end): very clear yet flugel-y sound, easy to play, great intonation.

Josef Klier Exclusive series: somewhat more diffuse, but still works in a commercial setting, rather cost effective (I still play that one for quieter gigs).

Another Yamaha? Haven’t played them in a while but those I played have a very comfortable rim and a good sound. Main piece was a 12F3d, I seem to remember.

The Thomann house brand mouthpieces are surprisingly good (like them better than the Bach rims) at a very attractive price.
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2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier

[kehaulani]

Did you say what trumpet mouthpiece you play? Maybe part of your problem is playing on an unfamiliar/uncomfortable rim.

I have mainly, since the 60s, played on Purviance/Reeves trumpet mpcs. so the last flugelhorn mpc. I bought was one made by Reeves.

Not saying that a Reeves would be the best choice for you, just illustrating the logic in keeping the rims the same.
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"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn

[Crazy Finn]

So, I'm not a flugel aficionado but I'll elaborate on what I've discovered.

Back in College I played some flugel with the jazz band, because they said - here's the flugel part. I think it might have been a Yamaha... maybe a 631, but I don't remember as it was over 20 years ago. I think I played it with my Bach 3CFL, because I had one, which was probably the wrong shank, but it seemed to work fine, and I even soloed on one tune on it.

I have a Yamaha 731, which I got about 8 years ago. It plays nice. I got a Yamaha 14F4 - I'm a Yamaha/Schilke 14 or Bach 3C or Stork 3-4 kind of player. It fit, was the right shank, and was .... fine. Frankly, I was looking for something .... more? Hard to explain, it was just kind of plain sounding. I ended up with a ACB 3CFX (I think) at some point, which I initially thought was a flugel piece not a trumpet piece (though Trent told me it works on large shank flugels as well). Well, I plugged it into my Yamaha and it was a whole different horn - darker, deeper, livelier, better. Even though it was deep, it actually played easier and with a better sound. It was what I had been missing.

I also have a ACB 3MD flugel mouthpiece that I acquired later, and frankly, I struggle to tell the difference between them. Also, very good.

I haven't played on a Wick or a Curry, so I can't compare.

I've thought about trying a Curry or a Stork - as I play the latter on my trumpet fairly often (3C and sometimes 4D) or something else. All, I can say is that while the standard Yamaha was fine (I also play on a Shew Jazz on trumpet fairly often like it), the ACB pieces were something that really opened up the horn. I'm sure that other pieces could as well. "That" thing for you and your flugel is out there.
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LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn

[Riojazz]

Your mouthpieces have a very wide range or diameters. The Yamaha 16 is like a Bach 1. The Curry 3 is smaller but much bigger than the Wick 4. For example, if you like the Wick, you should try a Curry 7, more like a Bach 3.

So yes, look at what are you playing on for trumpet, and use a mouthpiece comparison chart to start with a comparable rim size on the flugel. Then concentrate on the cup shape and depth.

And make sure you are using the right taper for your flugel leadpipe. A mismatch in the taper can make a great horn or mouthpiece sound wrong.
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Matt Finley https://mattfinley.bandcamp.com/releases
Kanstul 1525 flugel with French taper, Shires Bb Destino Med & C trumpets, Schilke XA1 cornet, Schagerl rotary, Schilke P5-4 picc, Yamaha soprano sax, Powell flute. Sanborn GR66MS & Touvron-D.

[Richard III]

You play a Yamaha flugelhorn. The Curry choices will be FL-Y, as in Y for Yamaha. It is the middle of the road Curry flugel mouthpiece. Best intonation of the bunch. Then there's FLD-Y, D for Deep. FLM-Y a little shallower. FLJ-Y which is a mouthpiece for playing more big band stuff and projecting more.

Somewhere in there is something for every situation and sound.

The Wicks and the Yamaha mouthpieces made my flugelhorn sound like a trombone. Not good. There's a bunch more but after trying everything I could find, Curry has whatever I need.
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Richard

King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece

[cgaiii]

Totally personal comment. When I was testing flugels a few years ago to figure out which I wanted, I found playing the 731 on a Austin Custom Brass Custom Flugelhorn mpc was really pleasant. The large Morse shank version has good heft and played well with the 731, which was my favorite among the Yamaha flugels. Eventually wound up with a different flugel and a different mouthpiece, but I talked to the good people at ACB and got one close to the rim of my usual trumpet piece, so there was no transition problem. The flugel I have now requires a small Morse taper, and the ACB for this is a bit lighter than the large taper one. For the Yamaha the ACB was a really good fit for me.
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Bb: Schilke X3L AS SP, Yamaha YTR-6335S
C: Schilke CXL, Kanstul 1510-2
Picc: Kanstul 920
Bb Bugle: Kanstul
Bb Pocket: Manchester Brass
Flugel: Taylor Standard
Bass Trumpet: BAC Custom
Natural Tr: Custom Haas replica by Nikolai Mänttäri Morales

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[wesleyheath]

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