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What mouthpiece would fit a Courtois Flugelhorn?



 
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Coldeye
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2021 12:08 am    Post subject: What mouthpiece would fit a Courtois Flugelhorn? Reply with quote

Found a Courtois flugelhorn locally here. Serial number (dated using the info at https://www.horn-u-copia.net/serial/courtoislist.html) Shows it was made around 1920s, serial number 622. Would any flugel MP fit it? Sadly it does not come with one.
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delano
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2021 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Should be 'small morse taper' = Bach taper:

https://mouthpieceexpress.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=197_200&osCsid=hq545c46jeb9aeitltsvei2142
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Flugelnut
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2021 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My 1960´s Courtois mouthpiece brochure shows flugelhorn mouthpieces to have a cylindrical "French" shank, so my assumption would be that certainly in the 1920's Courtois flugels were supplied with a mouthpiece of that type.
A new Courtois flugel mouthpiece that I acquired lately has a Yamaha (large Morse) shank with an ending OD of 9.5 mm.
However, I never found a real difference in playing characteristics of the different shanks. If they fit and don't wobble, that is.
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Coldeye
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2021 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you both for the reply. I will visit the local store to see if the Bach fits. Now all I need are replacement cork/felts/springs, hopefully I can use the generic stuff (yamaha/olds/etc kits).
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delano
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, I didn't notice your flügel is from 1920 or so. Then anything is possible.
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scottfsmith
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The horn-u-copia list is not completely accurate, the serial numbers were reset one more time in 1917 when the company was sold. Your 622 could be either ~1905 or ~1920. The best way to tell is if the valve tops have little rings of cork on top of them.. That method seems to have died out in the 1910's sometime when they switched to pads under the buttons only.

As to the shank, in the 50's Courtois was using French taper but I have not seen an early Courtois flugelhorn so am not sure what they were using then.
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Ed Kennedy
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 6:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.starrett.com/category/1114#:~:text=Hole%20gages%20are%20used%20to%20gage%20internal%20dimensions,gages%20help%20determine%20the%20diameter%20of%20a%20hole.

YOu or your tech (or any machinist) could check with a small hole gage. If the ID of the receiver is the same top to bottom then you likely have a French taper. There are cheap small hole gage sets on-line.
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Coldeye
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

scottfsmith wrote:
The horn-u-copia list is not completely accurate, the serial numbers were reset one more time in 1917 when the company was sold. Your 622 could be either ~1905 or ~1920. The best way to tell is if the valve tops have little rings of cork on top of them.. That method seems to have died out in the 1910's sometime when they switched to pads under the buttons only.

As to the shank, in the 50's Courtois was using French taper but I have not seen an early Courtois flugelhorn so am not sure what they were using then.


They do have the corks on top of them. At first I thought it was weird and it was reassembled wrong somehow. behind the front of the bell there are a bunch of "awards" and the latest was is from 1910.

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scottfsmith
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2021 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thats interesting. There is also a 1911 stamp on there, the Turin award was 1911. The next medal commonly mentioned on the bells is 1927. So my guess would be that you were in fact right to begin with and it is from around 1920. All the trumpets I have seen from then had moved on from the corks on top, but they might have kept them longer on the flugels. Also from this era I have seen horns using older parts on them, due to the disruption of WWI.
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Coldeye
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quick update, a French Taper does not fit on this flugel, but a Bach small taper does. Plays nicely with a 3CFL. I think the lead pipe had some modification done to accept small taper MPs.
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