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An orchestra etiquette question.



 
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2021 8:27 pm    Post subject: An orchestra etiquette question. Reply with quote

Up until quarantine I played in a studio style orchestra with 25-30 musicians.

We normally set up on the platform in three half circle rows. My position was typically in the second row behind the violas. I always like to tuck my instrument(s) tight under the music stand, near the upright.

The issue for me is that the one or more of the violas typically arrived close to the rehearsal or performance time. To get to their seats they would work their way down the second row past the horns and trumpets, move our stands and then step through to their chair. This would require me to grab my horn(s) to make room to step through.

To me it would be easier to walk into the center in front of the first row, turn their own stand and sit down.

Is there some etiquette that prevents walking in front of the director or something like that?
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Crazy Finn
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2021 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not to my knowledge, and I've played in a decent share of orchestras.

I like playing in orchestras were there's no one behind me. No percussion, no trombones, no tubas (though that's not so bad), nothing.
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2021 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know of any 'etiquette' prohibitions regarding the entry path - unless it disturbs some actual in-process work.

I think the chosen path should give the least amount of disturbance.

What annoys me is late-comers entering while actual playing is happening - WAIT until there is a break.
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ECLtmpt2
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2021 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JayKosta wrote:

...What annoys me is late-comers entering while actual playing is happening - WAIT until there is a break.


I never played in a commercial orchestra, not my career path, BUT I don't care if it's a community band, church band/orchestra/praise band, or any other musician group that's playing and/or practicing, WAIT until there is a break before disrupting everyone. As Aretha sang: R-E-S-P-E-C-T.
...my .02 cents FWIW
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ECLtmpt2 wrote:
JayKosta wrote:

...What annoys me is late-comers entering while actual playing is happening - WAIT until there is a break.


I never played in a commercial orchestra, not my career path, BUT I don't care if it's a community band, church band/orchestra/praise band, or any other musician group that's playing and/or practicing, WAIT until there is a break before disrupting everyone. As Aretha sang: R-E-S-P-E-C-T.
...my .02 cents FWIW

My 2 cents is that it depends on the person and their location. Someone on the end or in the back where they can get in without interrupting or distracting any nearby players isn't a problem for me.

If the number features a solo or a must have voice, and that player is playing that, perhaps the director should stop and let them in. But the player probably shouldn't make that decision.

Do you ever notice it is the same people who are always late? I can forgive those who are coming from work and the commute is tight, but some people seem to be unable to be there for the downbeat.

One church group I play with has a pianist that is always late, so the rest of the band sits around waiting.
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ECLtmpt2
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2021 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LittleRusty wrote:
ECLtmpt2 wrote:
JayKosta wrote:

...What annoys me is late-comers entering while actual playing is happening - WAIT until there is a break.


I never played in a commercial orchestra, not my career path, BUT I don't care if it's a community band, church band/orchestra/praise band, or any other musician group that's playing and/or practicing, WAIT until there is a break before disrupting everyone. As Aretha sang: R-E-S-P-E-C-T.
...my .02 cents FWIW

My 2 cents is that it depends on the person and their location. Someone on the end or in the back where they can get in without interrupting or distracting any nearby players isn't a problem for me.


LittleRusty, I can go along with that scenario, I see where that can be OK. I was responding from the perspective of a late arriving player that has to move stands, walk sideways, have others 'make way', etc. and just generally upset an already basically static situation.


[quote/] Do you ever notice it is the same people who are always late?[/quote]

Unfortunately yes, 95% (no real data to support my number) of the time it's the same one or two. Being realistic, anyone can have an issue from time to time, I think I've been late once or twice over the years (I think!) and that's fine, stuff happens. However, when arriving late for a group of others becomes habitual I begin to feel disrespected.

I'm from the school of arriving on-time is late. Anyway, this post hit a nerve with me after I just finished a summer gig where one of the Principles was late for almost every practice & most importantly they arrived late on the evening of each of our three performance. Boy was I xxxxx-upset-xxxxxx.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2021 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do not DISagree with the observations here but it's a good idea that you "look before you leap". I had a really embarrassing experience once and I've never forgotten it.

I was conducting a community band and, one evening after there had already been a few minor disturbances, a sax player came in late, and took her place, doing the above, i.e. setting up her stand, getting out her music, putting her sax together, etc.

At that point, I had had it and stopped the band and emphatically told them, and her, about "proper protocol". She was both angry and hurt. I could tell she thought about quitting. Not really out of defiance but out of frustration.

I talked to her on a break and she mentioned that she had worked all day, come home and cooked dinner for her family and with little pause, battled traffic to make what rehearsal she could.

Humbled me and I never forgot the lesson.
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2021 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:
I do not DISagree with the observations here but it's a good idea that you "look before you leap". I had a really embarrassing experience once and I've never forgotten it.

I was conducting a community band and, one evening after there had already been a few minor disturbances, a sax player came in late, and took her place, doing the above, i.e. setting up her stand, getting out her music, putting her sax together, etc.

At that point, I had had it and stopped the band and emphatically told them, and her, about "proper protocol". She was both angry and hurt. I could tell she thought about quitting. Not really out of defiance but out of frustration.

I talked to her on a break and she mentioned that she had worked all day, come home and cooked dinner for her family and with little pause, battled traffic to make what rehearsal she could.

Humbled me and I never forgot the lesson.

Reminds me of the oboist who was late to rehearsal because, while he was hurrying to get to rehearsal, he was pulled over for speeding.
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loudog
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2021 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think just be a gracious colleague and do what you can to accommodate others.
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2021 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

loudog wrote:
I think just be a gracious colleague and do what you can to accommodate others.

So you are saying the viola is in the wrong since they are not doing what they can to accommodate others?

I did understand your point, but phrased my question to point out that the coin has two sides, hence my question.

Edit: I am always gracious and have never made a fuss.
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LaTrompeta
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just don't break the bassoon. You'll pay for that for the next decade!
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LaTrompeta wrote:
Just don't break the bassoon. You'll pay for that for the next decade!

Or some of the string instruments.
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LaTrompeta
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LittleRusty wrote:
LaTrompeta wrote:
Just don't break the bassoon. You'll pay for that for the next decade!

Or some of the string instruments.


+1
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deleted_user_687c31b
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whenever someone gets anywhere near my trumpet, I always take it out of harm's way. It's got nothing to do with the person, it's just proper etiquette to give them all the space they could need .

As for the original question, maybe they'd rather not go through the first row because that's where all expensive violins are, whereas the back row only has vuvuzela's.
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LaTrompeta
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LittleRusty wrote:
loudog wrote:
I think just be a gracious colleague and do what you can to accommodate others.

So you are saying the viola is in the wrong...


Well, now that you mention it...
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loudog
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LittleRusty wrote:
loudog wrote:
I think just be a gracious colleague and do what you can to accommodate others.

So you are saying the viola is in the wrong since they are not doing what they can to accommodate others?

I did understand your point, but phrased my question to point out that the coin has two sides, hence my question.

Edit: I am always gracious and have never made a fuss.


I'm not saying anyone is in the wrong, or the right. I'm saying if everyone is gracious and accommodating then there aren't problems! It's a general statement...take it as you will.
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

loudog wrote:
LittleRusty wrote:
loudog wrote:
I think just be a gracious colleague and do what you can to accommodate others.

So you are saying the viola is in the wrong since they are not doing what they can to accommodate others?

I did understand your point, but phrased my question to point out that the coin has two sides, hence my question.

Edit: I am always gracious and have never made a fuss.


I'm not saying anyone is in the wrong, or the right. I'm saying if everyone is gracious and accommodating then there aren't problems! It's a general statement...take it as you will.

Maybe I didn’t.

But I think I do now. Peace.
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