Pro Players vs. Amateurs

[Andy Del]

it might have been better to take a leaf from other activities, such as sport if you want to make a pro / amateur distinction.

That distinction is payment.

There are professional players in my neck of the woods who earn good money and are as boring as all get out. Others who act (acted) unprofessionally. Some who were absolutely lovely to all and sundry, others who were a$$e$.

I know amateurs who can play their socks off and don't WANT to be paid. They simply play because they love doing it. there are pros who will come out and help people just because they can, and others who won't open the front door for less than a few hundred $$$.

I would be very hesitant to judge a book by it's cover and a player by how much they earn with the horn.

How people play? Of course the better players who earn a living would communicate much better than a weekend warrior on their tenor horn. That's to be expected, but there is no defining line between being paid or not.

cheers

Andy
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so many horns, so few good notes...

[Richard III]

Here's another concept. And one that is maybe just a little joke. Okay. Not joking. A pro can play music that doesn't sound good. On a horn that costs more then an average car. To critical acclaim. For people paying real money.

A very good amateur can play really nice music. On a crappy horn. For no money. To a crowd of just a few, that ignore that music and do it again, night after night.

A lousy amateur plays on the street, with a bunny by his side, for almost no money to people passing by who occasionally feel guilty and give him a dollar.
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Richard

King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece

[Bflatman]

I play on the street without a bunny. So I am not even up to the standard of Lousy amateur. Will a bunny help.

The difference between a pro and amateur where a pro plays so strongly that he cannot play it bad is professionalism.

Many pros play badly with poor tone It is what I have seen and heard. I know there are lots of pros that have great tone but we are not talking about the difference between amateurs and the very best pros.

Here is a selection of pros playing classics, I recommend the trumpet christmas

http://www.billandellie.com/sounds/TrumpetBloopers.asp

For me the difference is quality of sound and tone.and smoothness and the ability to grab the listener and make them feel better.

As confirmation of this the last time I was in the street without bunny I was asked my stage name.

People judge the quality of players by their tone and musicality not by how many notes they get right.
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[Vin DiBona]

This kind of topic reminds me of the old adage when you walk into a Rolls-Royce dealer, you do not ask the price.
If one asks what the difference between a pro and an amateur is, you are very likely an amateur.
Otherwise, you'd know.
R. Tomasek

[Richard III]

[mark5009]

The best one-liner I heard to this question (can't remember the context, classical I think) is: "Amateurs practice until they get it right, professionals until they don't get it wrong."

I'd add that what is right and what wrong is determined by context. For example, throwing a classically-trained orchestral professional into a Balkan dance band, with or without charts, is unlikely to go well
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.. mark.

Schilke A2 cornet / Solista flugelhorn / Getzen 390

[camelbrass]

[gstump]

Missed the point- Happy Holidaze
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Couesnon Flug (1967)
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[mike ansberry]

It is a vast spectrum from poor player to the best players. To me, the best players almost never make a mistake of any kind. Rhythm, Pitch, attacks, tone, style, everything.

A friend of mine who is a phenomenal player had a gig with Claude Gordon. One of the other players in the group who worked regularly with Claude said that he could count on 1 hand the mistakes that Claude made in a years time.

My opinion: the top guys have photographic memories, or at least very nearly so. They see the pitches and rhythms on the page. The music is fully formed in their brain instantly and it just sort of flows out of them.
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Music is a fire in your belly, fighting to get out. You'd better put a horn in the way before someone gets hurt.

[delano]

[ChuckK]

[deleted_user_02066fd]

In a similar post this past summer I used the analogy of pga golfers vs good recreational players. Elite musicians/athletes on any instrument/sport are at a whole different level than the rest of us mere mortals. Some years back I was at the Greater Hartford Open Golf Tournament. I went with my lifelong best friend who was also an exceptional golfer. He told me, you haven't lived until you see a pga pro hit a ball. On one hole, the path of the players drives went over our heads. You could hear the ball cutting through the air. I'm a pretty fair player and have played with guys who could hit the ball a long way. None had that sound at impact that the guys on tour have.
I have a very dear friend who is a master djembefola. He was doing a residency at the school I retired from. We were playing for a troupe of kids who were doing an African Dance. On one piece he was supposed to do an improvised solo over a rhythm a group of 5th graders and I were playing. He seemed to physically transform as he soloed, he looked like he was in a trance. I play djembe quite well but could have never put down anything like my friend Greg did. He just plays at a completely different, elite level.

[Croquethed]

Peanuts56,

I volunteered one year at the GHO after it became The Travelers. It started raining crazy after the first dozen groups went out. They suspended play until 4:30. They got about another half dozen groups out and it started raining again. And that was that.

That was good for the volunteers who stuck around, because we had meal and beer vouchers to spare. And then I learned the difference between a pro golfer and a really good amateur...as I enjoyed my deluxe golf course burger and a beer or two, the dew point had to be about 70, the Connecticut River valley was as oppressive as Florida, and it was getting dark. And these guys were riding out in the soup to the range to shag wedges until they couldn't see anymore.

I think the parallels could also be made for a pro horn player.

[LaTrompeta]

The main difference between amateur and pro is that amateurs can afford to play music they like.
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[soulfire]

Pro players are absolutely the cream of the crop and obviously, anyone who plays at that level has to be very talented, but talent will only take you so far. I'm sure are many or at least some people on this forum who are just as talented, but don't have the same passion or for financial reasons opted for a more stable career.

These guys and gals got to where they are not just because of natural ability, but because they had the focus and desire to practice hours and hours every day for years, as well as the right attitude for that kind of work. You could have the skills to play at a professional level, but if you aren't willing to put up with some of the bs that is required of them, you'll never get a job. Additionally, they are this good because of who they compete against and play with. If you're already very talented and driven, and you hang around with the cream of the crop every day, it's going to raise your game as opposed to those of us who play in a local band or by ourselves. If you sat next to Wayne Bergeron and Javier Gonzalez every day, you'd observe, chat and pick up some things. Ok, that alone isn't nearly enough to turn you into a pro-level musician, but would you be better? I think so.

Pros also just have different lives and priorities than we do. Idc how talented you are, if you have a 9-5 desk job and you're raising kids, you simply don't have the same amount of time to practice the horn as another guy who's also raising kids, but plays for a living to support those kids. And even if you did have that time, we still don't work on the same skills that they do, because we don't play 8 hour sets or need to be ready to audition at a moment's notice so we can pay next month's rent.

I'm not saying they're not amazingly talented individuals and more talented than us amateurs. I'm just saying we shouldn't think of them as super-humans blessed with supreme gifts that we could never dream of. Sure, that's the case sometimes, but I'm comparing a talented amateur to a regular professional, not Timofei Dokshizer. There are a host of other factors in play here to help (force?) them be at that level.
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Chris

[Seymor B Fudd]

I´ll side with the posters talking about timing, rhythm. The distribution of energy evenly spread, clarity of sound, confidence.
I´ve had the opportunity, several times, to sit close to a pro, always being struck by the timing; also I´ve noticed that if I listen, "open up" to the transmissions I play better myself!
I´ve met a substantial number of pros prior to their education, prior to becoming a pro, when they still were amateurs siding with me in the big bands during the seventies. They all radiated this exceptional gift of timing!
Meeting them when they had become pros? Better trumpet players, better readers and so on.
Might end up in the question which comes first - the hen or the egg.
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[XOF]

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[improver]

The difference between a pro and an amateur is developing the skills necessary to be completely proficient on your instrument and able to perform in any situation you get paid for.