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Re-visiting the 2016 Callet NY Soloist



 
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deejaymushone
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 3:08 pm    Post subject: Re-visiting the 2016 Callet NY Soloist Reply with quote

Greetings !

I am very excited about all of this, and my wife, daughter, and cat don't want to hear my thoughts on this, so I thought I would share this with all of you!

I purchased Jerome's final horn, his 2016 NY Soloist, from him in person upon its release. I have a gold-lacquered model, which I think may be 1-of-a-kind, and was a prototype. Jerome had said that OSHA in CA prohibited their gold lacquer process, so Kanstul could not make them (!)

I had initially paired this with his SC8 MP - the SC "Symphonic" model, and at the time, his largest. It had a fat, dark, sound, and was incredibly responsive, and I loved it to death - it made everything easier to play than my previous Callet Symphonique (which was the Jazz, but w/ a copper bell).

However, given that I did almost everything Jerome said for a LONGGG time, I switched to the SC 1ss immediately upon its release and sold my SC8, even though the SC8 sounded awesome. The 1ss took a WHILE to get used to, but I eventually did, and played it exclusively for ~2.5 years.

I will not lie - with the NY Soloist + the 1ss MP, I could play REALLY high! Not with a good sound; not with a full sound; and not loudly - no one was going to mistake me for Bill Chase, etc. - but I could get up there.

~2.5 years ago, I started the vintage horn and vintage MP safari, and now play 2 MPs with very similar cup profiles at the 1ss, but not as crazy shallow - a 40s Muck 17 and a 40s Parduba 5. However, I never had a backbore that matched the NY Soloist, so it sat in the case lonely for the past 2.5 years.

I finally just got a 1ss backbore threaded to play w/ the 2 aforementioned tops, and finally took the NY Soloist out of the case. WOW ! Especially on the Muck top, w/ the 1ss backbore, the NY Soloist has a dark, buttery sound, and is still REALLY responsive and easy to play. This is in part due to the fact that the final/last Callet backbores are REALLY tight. Like - Dave Rogers measured it against some of the tightest/smallest ones in his collection of ~1,000 vintage mouthpieces (a majority from the big band era), and it was significantly tighter than ANY of them.

Being armed with alot more knowledge about this stuff now (mostly from Dave R), I really wish I could speak w/ Jerome again about his thinking about all of this. Jerome developed his ideas about MP and horn design for ~45 years, and the 1ss-1sc and NY Soloist are the culmination of his decades of research, as well as his collaborations w/ the master Zig.

The extreme upper register obv. does not come as easily on the NY Soloist w/ the Muck top as the 1ss top, but the horn is still REALLY easy to play and so responsive - it just takes less work (when paired w/ a Callet backbore) than any other horn I owned or have tried. I am sure this is in part due to his *super* tight, straight backbore design, but it is also due to Callet's choice of gap, (my threaded backbore and cups are all 27 throat - Jerome's stock is 29), and most importantly, how Jerome's backbore communicates / matches with his horn. I have not found his backbore (which is 1/4" longer than most standard ones) to match w/ any of my other horns, but for his, its really perfect.

Anyway, after sitting in its case for 2.5 years, I was considering selling it so someone else can enjoy it (although I am sentimentally attached to it), but its back in the rotation now - its just so easy to play, I can play it for hours without getting tired; and the tight backbore and overall tight blow just don't let you overblow on it; and by only using minimal air and effort, you really conserve energy and endurance goes through the roof !

I am particularly attached to the 1957 "early" Conn 10B right now, but the NY Soloist is right along w/ it; the Conn has a "wider", more spread, sound (due to the 5 1/8" bell) and more open blow, and more feedback behind the bell as well, but the Callet is also so sweet sounding, and just so easy to play ! This was one of Jerome's stated goals - that as he was getting on in years, and had less lung capacity, he wanted to work less for the same results - he really succeeded with these !

Thank you for reading -

Jeremy Mush1
Flatbush
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1924 Besson Rapuwana
1941 Martin Handcraft Imperial / 1949 Martin Committee Deluxe
1929 Conn 2B / 1924 Conn 22B / 1934 Conn 8B / 1957 Conn 10B
1950 Olds Ambassador
2016 Callet NY Soloist

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NC1993QIK7E
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royjohn
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Jeremy,
Thanks for this very interesting writeup. But, I'm confused. I thought the NY horns were early ones for Jerry and that his last horn was the Sima. Can you explain the chronology a little further?
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royjohn
Trumpets: 1928 Holton Llewellyn Model, 1957 Holton 51LB, 2010 Custom C by Bill Jones, 2011 Custom D/Eb by Bill Jones
Flugels: 1975 Olds Superstar, 1970's Elkhardt, 1970's Getzen 4 valve
Cornet: 1970's Yamaha YCR-233S . . . and others . . .
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deejaymushone
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 4:17 pm    Post subject: re: Royjohn Reply with quote

Jerome liked to keep things interesting over the decades, by doing things like crazy, differing MP #'ing systems, and in this case, calling his final horn (2016 release) the NY Soloist, while this is a horn name he already used in the 1980's for a MUCH inferior, DEG-built horn lol !

This is the horn that came several years after the SIMA, and is very similar, but has a different lead pipe, as well as a larger bore size. (There may be other minor differences that I am not aware of, but I never owned a Sima to measure/compare; I do know that the SIMA has significantly more resistance, and is even harder to overblow on; but if you are a "resistance" player, and follow Jerome's instructions to only use the tiniest amount of very highly compressed air, the Sima also plays beautifully.) According to Jerome, the NY Soloist was his response to customer complaints that the SIMA was too tight, and that players were unable to overblow on it w/ out the it backing up (!)
_________________
1924 Besson Rapuwana
1941 Martin Handcraft Imperial / 1949 Martin Committee Deluxe
1929 Conn 2B / 1924 Conn 22B / 1934 Conn 8B / 1957 Conn 10B
1950 Olds Ambassador
2016 Callet NY Soloist

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NC1993QIK7E


Last edited by deejaymushone on Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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tptguy
Jerome Callet Forum Moderator


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Though Jerry would spend countless hours investigating, designing, and fine tuning trumpets and mouthpieces, he really had no patience or interest for naming things. It’s especially clear with the mouthpieces that there was never a plan. He could keep them straight in his mind, so he was ok with that.

The Sima trumpet was named in honor of his Mother. Sima was her maiden name. For his last horn he wanted to highlight his adopted city and the great trumpet soloists that also made NYC their home. So he actually intended to simply name it the Callet New York. His very first trumpets were also stamped NY, but Jerry didn’t worry that this would be confusing. His 1st great full design was the Soloist. So I suggested he pull all the history together by naming his last and greatest design the NY Soloist. Yes, it’s still confusing. But it makes more sense when you know the full history.
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tptguy
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Sima is a pinch tighter in the valve section and a little more open in the lead pipe. The NY Soloist switches that around. My Sima always felt a little more open to me than my NY Soloist. But my point is that there was not a lot of difference in the end product, and that was intentional.

I can’t tell you how many people declared the .453 Sima “too tight” before ever blowing it. It was many. We knew we had a great bell, and Jerry was a real master with lead pipes. So I suggested to Jerry that we start with a .460 valve section and Jerry then find the right lead pipe to get back to the blow, power, and pitch of the Sima. It took some encouragement and persistence. But Jerry not only nailed it, in a very short time he actually got more accustomed to his NY Soloist than his Sima.

From then on, whenever we were talking trumpets, Jerry simply referred to the Sima as his horn, and the NYS was my horn. But the only thing I did was prod him a bit. Both designs were entirely his - 2 great horns.
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deejaymushone
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tptguy wrote:
The Sima is a pinch tighter in the valve section and a little more open in the lead pipe. The NY Soloist switches that around. My Sima always felt a little more open to me than my NY Soloist. But my point is that there was not a lot of difference in the end product, and that was intentional. So I suggested to Jerry that we start with a .460 valve section and Jerry then find the right lead pipe to get back to the blow, power, and pitch of the Sima.
From then on, whenever we were talking trumpets, Jerry simply referred to the Sima as his horn, and the NYS was my horn.


Wowowow - ty for the info - def. did not know about most of that ! Jerome had told me, though, that the NY Soloist lead pipe was a replica of a Martin Committee leadpipe that Zig had lying around, and they fitted it onto the horn, and it worked/played great. I def. did not know about all the input you had on the NY Soloist - big kudos - his final and greatest horn, and the capstone of his 45+ years of research and design - !

I also think its interesting that it was said that his favorite of all the vintage horns (~150+ ?) that he bought, had refurbished and re-plated/re-lacquered, tested and studied, and then sold (mostly at profit) was the 1920s (early) Conn 22B. He had said throughout his career that the greatest and most sought-after of all Bb trumpets was the pre-war French Besson - he even mentions this in some of his older promotional materials. I had heard that the Sima and 2016 NY Soloist were most influenced by the 20's Conn 22b.

However, I embedded a photo below - top is my 1924 Conn 22B; middle is the NY Soloist; and the bottom is a 1924 French Besson. The design of the NY Soloist is clearly more similar to the Besson than the Conn (!) - but the Besson has an even tighter wrap. That being said, the NY Soloist def. has a tighter/longer wrap than most modern Bb trumpets.

I think this is really interesting. Jerome's final horn, after 45+ years of research and study, is more similar in style/wrap/design to horns of the 1920s/1930s than to more modern horn designs (including his own!). However, it should not come as a surprise. Three of Jerome's favorite players (aside from Maynard!) were Harry James, Charlie Shavers, and Raphael Mendez, and this was the style of horn that they were playing at the peak of their careers - not the wide wrap of the Conn Connstellation popular w/ the hard bop players in the late 50s and early 60s.

Anyway, after leaving my 2016 NY Soloist in the case for almost 2.5 years and almost considering selling it, having only played it briefly w/ an SC8 (which he gave me w/ the horn, and which I REALLY liked and sounded great on, & which Jerome then pressured me to get rid of), but mostly w/ an SC 1ss, pairing it now w/ a Rudy Muck 17C (Charlie Shavers' MP) and a Parduba 5 (Harry James' MP) makes it sound SO sweet - a world of difference than pairing it w/ the super shallow 1ss. I am in love all over again !

Jeremy Mush1

1924 Conn 22b, 2016 Callet NY Soloist, 1924 French Besson Rapuwana by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/148897042@N02/]
_________________
1924 Besson Rapuwana
1941 Martin Handcraft Imperial / 1949 Martin Committee Deluxe
1929 Conn 2B / 1924 Conn 22B / 1934 Conn 8B / 1957 Conn 10B
1950 Olds Ambassador
2016 Callet NY Soloist

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NC1993QIK7E
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tptguy
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A few quick thoughts:
Jerry had a really good Conn 22B, but he then moved onto similar era King Liberty. The Sima is really modeled more after the Liberty. But the Conn is in the lineage too.

Jerry recognized that the pre-war French Berson was the most copied. So yes, it was considered the greatest by many, many. But I never heard Jerry say it was one of his favorites. He wasn’t even a huge fan of his own excellent Besson copy, the Callet Gran Prix. I believe he’d take a Liberty or 22B any day.

For me, the Superchops 1SB is perfect on my NY Soloist. But for a little wider sound without getting tubby I’ve recommended the SC3s. DeeJay, if you get a chance to try one of these please give us your thoughts.

Best wishes, Kyle
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royjohn
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tptguy wrote:

Quote:
Jerry had a really good Conn 22B, but he then moved onto similar era King Liberty. The Sima is really modeled more after the Liberty. But the Conn is in the lineage too.


I wonder if you know what era King Liberty Jerry had...there were several different models from 1920 (first Liberty, 1920-1932), then the Liberty #2 in 1933 with the X brace, the 1946 Liberty Balanced Model and the 1963 Liberty.

I have a couple of different Liberties and wonder if I have one like Jerry's...
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royjohn
Trumpets: 1928 Holton Llewellyn Model, 1957 Holton 51LB, 2010 Custom C by Bill Jones, 2011 Custom D/Eb by Bill Jones
Flugels: 1975 Olds Superstar, 1970's Elkhardt, 1970's Getzen 4 valve
Cornet: 1970's Yamaha YCR-233S . . . and others . . .
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tptguy
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

X brace
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royjohn
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tptguy wrote:

Quote:
X brace [King Liberty]


Ah-ha, I happen to have one of those sitting in a corner here, great Art Deco engraving...IDK where I got it, prolly a pawn shop...I'll give it a try...thx!
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royjohn
Trumpets: 1928 Holton Llewellyn Model, 1957 Holton 51LB, 2010 Custom C by Bill Jones, 2011 Custom D/Eb by Bill Jones
Flugels: 1975 Olds Superstar, 1970's Elkhardt, 1970's Getzen 4 valve
Cornet: 1970's Yamaha YCR-233S . . . and others . . .
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deejaymushone
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 10:33 am    Post subject: Re: Re: Re: 2016 NY Soloist and MP combinations Reply with quote

tptguy wrote:
A few quick thoughts:
Jerry recognized that the pre-war French Berson was the most copied. So yes, it was considered the greatest by many, many. But I never heard Jerry say it was one of his favorites. He wasn’t even a huge fan of his own excellent Besson copy, the Callet Gran Prix. I believe he’d take a Liberty or 22B any day. For me, the Superchops 1SB is perfect on my NY Soloist. But for a little wider sound without getting tubby I’ve recommended the SC3s. DeeJay, if you get a chance to try one of these please give us your thoughts.
Best wishes, Kyle


Hey Kyle & sorry for the late reply - thankfully, with the vaccines widely available here in the US for months now, the pandemic is finally coming to an end here in NYC and the country, and gigs, rehearsals, jam sessions, shows, and togetherness are finally all coming back & getting busy again !

& re: above - I played Jerome's 1ss exclusively from its release for ~3+ years. There is no doubt that the 1ss, 1sc, and 1sb are both incredibly efficient (you literally cannot overblow or they cut out) and aid in the upper register. However, I am not a lead player, and even though I was used to them, and played the 1ss everywhere, on everything (on the 2016 NY Soloist), deep inside, I was never really personally happy with my tone on them. I play a vintage wide rim Parduba 5 and a vintage Muck 17 now, and the sound is MUCH fuller - night and day. I would go as far as to say that pairing these MPs, esp. the Muck 17, with the NY Soloist, that the NY Soloist literally sounds like a different horn !

This is of course a completely aesthetic choice, with no right or wrong answer. However, the sound of the trumpet players who played w/ Bird after Dizzy (Red Rodney, Miles, Kenny Dorham, Fats Navarro) is not the sound of an ultra shallow MP like the 1ss-1sb. Dizzy and Howard McGhee used very shallow MP's, shallower than the others just mentioned - and you can hear this in their tone. The sound of the great players on Blue Note Records and Prestige Records from the 40s-60s is also not the sound of an ultra shallow MP. For the most part, every single one of these players is playing with the same principals that Jerome taught. They just made an aesthetic choice that they wanted a warmer, fatter sound.

For Jerome personally, his focus was playing as high as humanly possible (or higher?!), with massive power, and he was willing to sacrifice tone quality in the middle and lower registers for this. Again - this is not wrong, and I am not passing any judgement. And for this job, the 1ss-1sb is a great tool for this.

Also - he gave me an SC8 when I bought the NY Soloist from him - that had a great sound too, but I switched to the 1ss when it came out and sold the SC8. In retrospect, the SC8 had a really nice sound, too, but was wider - the Parduba 5 and Muck 17 are both narrower, similar in cup diameter to the 1ss. Oh - and I am only using the cups of those two MPs - I pair them with a Callet 1ss backbore.

To me, Freddie Webster and Emmett Berry have some of the best sounds - Emmett plays very much in the Charlie Shavers vein, but even fatter - his solo starts at 1:35 here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wxx-FoXgzoo

This really is the question with no answer lol - gear which aids in range or tone? We all make gear choices that lie somewhere in the middle.

All the best,

Jeremy Mush1
aka djMush1
_________________
1924 Besson Rapuwana
1941 Martin Handcraft Imperial / 1949 Martin Committee Deluxe
1929 Conn 2B / 1924 Conn 22B / 1934 Conn 8B / 1957 Conn 10B
1950 Olds Ambassador
2016 Callet NY Soloist

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NC1993QIK7E
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Forte
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

deejaymushone wrote:


I also think its interesting that it was said that his favorite of all the vintage horns (~150+ ?) that he bought, had refurbished and re-plated/re-lacquered, tested and studied, and then sold (mostly at profit) was the 1920s (early) Conn 22B. He had said throughout his career that the greatest and most sought-after of all Bb trumpets was the pre-war French Besson - he even mentions this in some of his older promotional materials. I had heard that the Sima and 2016 NY Soloist were most influenced by the 20's Conn 22b.

However, I embedded a photo below - top is my 1924 Conn 22B; middle is the NY Soloist; and the bottom is a 1924 French Besson. The design of the NY Soloist is clearly more similar to the Besson than the Conn (!) - but the Besson has an even tighter wrap. That being said, the NY Soloist def. has a tighter/longer wrap than most modern Bb trumpets.


Jeremy Mush1


Jerry preferred the Conn 22bs from 1930 to 1949. The 1920's were too tight and the Victor's that came in 1950 weren't as good as the previous generation. The 22b's he liked had a single tuning slide brace. The 1920's have no brace.

Jerry's personal 22b was military issued circa early 1940's if I'm remembering correctly.
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deejaymushone
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Jerome Callet's 22B Reply with quote

Ah - very interesting - ty for the info !

And yeah - I did a ton of digging on the Conn Loyalist website when I got my 1920s 22b and 2b; I guess since their original (1920s) 22b was such a popular model, they kept bringing the 22B designation back !?!

& I think Jerome's differences in opinion on these is all relative...these are all fine horns - just different. Also - Dave Rogers has demonstrated the perceived stuffiness / blow of any horn can be easily altered by swapping out different backbores - with a threaded cup, one can easily try any backbore combination on any horn, and make any horn feel tight or free-blowing, depending on the backbore size and backbore shape, as well as the size of the shank, and subsequent gap size. I am pretty sure Jerome was sticking his same mouthpiece into each horn, so was not accounting for the aforementioned.

Interestingly enough, Dave Rogers has a copy of a pamphlet-sized, late 1970's mouthpiece guide, in which Jerome wrote ~3pp himself, and discusses this. He states that his favorite backbores (at the time) were the Parduba, Caliccio, and Giardinelli (which was a copy of an even older one)....these would all be at this point considered to be varying degrees of tight, straight, "commercial"-style backbores, I believe....I now play either vintage Parduba backbores, or the backbore from the 1ss-1sc on all my horns.

All the best,

Jeremy Mush1
_________________
1924 Besson Rapuwana
1941 Martin Handcraft Imperial / 1949 Martin Committee Deluxe
1929 Conn 2B / 1924 Conn 22B / 1934 Conn 8B / 1957 Conn 10B
1950 Olds Ambassador
2016 Callet NY Soloist

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NC1993QIK7E
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terrys17
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 6:01 am    Post subject: kt custom mouthpiece Reply with quote

Ken titmus (formerly with warburton) is now offering his own backbores, etc.
Worth a look imo
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deejaymushone
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:04 pm    Post subject: Re: New Warburton backbores Reply with quote

Ah - very cool - ty - I have to say, tho - after playing backbore roulette for the past 2 years, I am happily settled (currently) w/ my Callet 1ss and vintage Parduba 5 backbores, and happy to just be focusing on music (!)
_________________
1924 Besson Rapuwana
1941 Martin Handcraft Imperial / 1949 Martin Committee Deluxe
1929 Conn 2B / 1924 Conn 22B / 1934 Conn 8B / 1957 Conn 10B
1950 Olds Ambassador
2016 Callet NY Soloist

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NC1993QIK7E
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