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Heavy bottom valve caps



 
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HoosierBrass
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Joined: 12 Sep 2021
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 9:17 am    Post subject: Heavy bottom valve caps Reply with quote

What are your thoughts on heavy bottom valve caps? I have had them on my horn for a long time and was just debating the options. I know it can be a personal preference but I am curious to hear the thoughts of others.
Pros? Cons? Thanks for your insight.
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zaferis
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Depends on the horn and the application.

BUT in general, I've gone back to standard weight caps. I find that in the hall, in the ensemble, the extra weight takes away something from the presence of the sound. And takes away my ability to color the sound dark to bright as wanted - tends to lock me into one tone color.

If I was the only trumpet in a small combo, playing on a microphone, not having to blend with or sing over the top of others, there might be a different answer.
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HERMOKIWI
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 10:39 am    Post subject: Re: Heavy bottom valve caps Reply with quote

HoosierBrass wrote:
What are your thoughts on heavy bottom valve caps? I have had them on my horn for a long time and was just debating the options. I know it can be a personal preference but I am curious to hear the thoughts of others.
Pros? Cons? Thanks for your insight.


You will not get uniformity of opinion from all players on the effect of heavy bottom valve caps. There are no universal pros or cons. Exactly what effect they have and whether they are beneficial, neutral or detrimental depends on the player, the particular horn being played, the type of music involved and especially on the player's own personal perceptions and preferences.

There is no substitute for trying things and drawing your own conclusions.
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Brassnose
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a Bach heavy cap on the third valve of the Bach in the signature. I like tighter slotting horns and the cap does support that. I had all three heavy caps on for testing purposes but that was overkill.

The flugel has three B&S heavy caps, works very nicely for improving the slotting and darkening the sound somewhat.

The Schmidt is a lightweight horn and does not have heavy caps. I don’t want the lightweight character of the horn to change. And it really does not need any heavy caps.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In addition to testing the inteernal responses which only you can do best, it couldn't hurt to also have another listener(or several) you trust, compare the sound of the horn with and without the weights in a blind test, to make sure you're actuallyproducing a better sound.

I don't mean this condescendingly, it's just that this can happen to many of us before we know it.
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Dale Proctor
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I bought some for my Bach ML 43 years ago, and now they’re in their little case in my trumpet stuff cabinet. They provided slightly better slotting, but the horn slotted well anyway. They seemed to richen (or dull) the tone a bit, but I never asked anyone for a listener’s opinion, so it could have just been a change in feedback. What I didn’t like, was they affected the ease of play above the staff. I’m no screamer, but it seemed to take more effort up there and affected my endurance.
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Crazy Finn
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've never liked the effect added weight has on any of my horns. I've only tried it on my main players - Yamaha, Benge, maybe my Radial - and I've disliked the change in response and flexibility that results.
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gregplo
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use a heavy cap only on the third valve of my Conn Vintage One when I'm using the D slide, and I add one of the small weights in addition when I'm using the rounded tuning slide. These are part of the Modular Valve Weight (MVW) system that Conn provided with the Conn V1. I like the extra stability/accuracy it gives me. I find that adding the heavy caps to the first and second valves affects the sound too much...deadens it for lack of a better term. I don't have that issue with adding the weight to the third valve only.
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't tried heavy caps, but I do have rubber o-rings on the inside of the 3 bottom valve caps. And I tighten those caps only snug enough so they do not loosen.
I think it makes a small change in the sound quality - perhaps a little less bright tone.
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cbtj51
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This from a 2007 thread regarding Brass Valve guides:

MichaelM2 wrote:
Dale, I think you hit it right on the head. You need to be at a certain level to appreciate the nuances these changes make. I spent a whole Saturday afternoon with weighted valve caps before I noticed a difference. When I did notice the difference it wasn't significant to me. For those of us who wander down the road of mediocrity the out of the box horn will usually work fine. Although being trumpet players we just have to tweak it for the psycological aspect.

Mike


I have a complete set of weighted bottom caps, light weight (skeletonized) valve buttons, lightweight brass springs, and brass valve guides that were included with my 2 owner (counting me) XO Piccolo that appear to have never been used in a plastic sealed (no longer) metallic case. Apparently, the original owner did not see a need to explore, and I'm so new to the Piccolo experience that I don't envision a need for any additional wanderings! Maybe that'll change at some point, we'll see!

Mike
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Andy Cooper
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You might want to take a look at " A weighty question" in the Horns forum Sept 2/21.
https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=157732

I discuss the problem of liking weights in a live practice room or empty hall but not being able to get the correct player feedback i need when being in the middle of a concert band trumpet section.
Some find more of a difference in how the horn feels than in how the horn sounds to others. While I have not found the magic combination of mouthpiece weight, throat, backbore, gap, venturi, etc to make weighted valve caps work in a trumpet section - that doesn't mean that a combination does not exist.

If you have an extra $45 or so by all means get a set of Curry caps. They do something . Just keep in mind that you may or may not like the results.
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TrumpetMD
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I play a Bach 43 trumpet with lightweight body and bell. A few years back, I experimented with added weight. I use Bach heavy caps, which really aren't that heavy at all, and add about 1.5 ounces in additional weight. This gives me close to a standard weight body, with a lightweight bell. I seems to add just a bit more core to my sound, but preserves the responsiveness and flexibility you get from a lightweight 43 bell.

Mike
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GeorgeB
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A set of heavy caps came with my Conn Vintage 1. I recorded myself playing Stardust with regular weights and then with the heavy weight caps, which made my tone a wee bit darker. I play with a small combo now and then and use the Vintage one with heavy caps, but I prefer regular caps for all my other horns, especially when playing with the band.
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mafields627
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use them with a Frankenhorn I own. With the standard caps the horn slotted pretty loosely and I chipped a lot of notes. I put on a set of Pickett heavy bottom caps and the slots firmed up quite a bit to make it optimal for me.
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Brad361
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is what Jason Harrelson says:

https://www.whyharrelson.com/jasons-blog/the-heavy-bottom-cap-myth

Personally, I’ve gone back and forth on them. My own conclusion is that on horns not designed with them, I either don’t like the affect or it doesn’t make much difference.

Brad
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