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Which Flugelhorn for Jazz?


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trickg
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Joined: 02 Jan 2002
Posts: 5266
Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland

PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The OP bought a Yamaha 631G back in November of last year, so for the purposes of that part of the thread, this has been handled.

Regarding the idea of a "flugelhorn for Jazz" - that's such and open-ended thing and it's all based on personal preference. I don't see this as a thing where a horn has to be specifically tailored for "Jazz" - this is aside from the fact that Jazz is such a broad spectrum of sounds and sub-genres.

Ultimately the flugelhorn for jazz will be whatever happens to be in your hands at the time you are playing it. We can look to some of the greats though and see what they play, and it truly runs the range - it can be danged near anything:

Couesnon
Yamaha
Conn
Kanstul
Edwards
Courtois
Bach (I don't particularly care for it, but a friend of mine has been playing a Bach flugel in a big band for roughly 2 decades)
Schilke
Getzen
Austin Custom Brass Doubler
etc.

Any time anyone asks about "what flugel do I get?" the answer I tend to always give is "Yamaha 631/ACB Doubler." The reason I say "Yamaha 631 is because some folks have an issue with buying anything that isn't a name brand or is made in China/Thailand/etc, and these days it tends to be the flugel that all other flugels are compared to.

However, regarding the ACB Doubler, I had a sweet Kanstul 925, and it was awesome, but I sold it, and my budget was tight when I went to replace it so I got the ACB Doubler with (at the time) the rose brass bell. When I bought it, I got it under the idea that it would be "good for now" and that I could replace it at a later date with something "better."

I've never replaced it - simply put, I've never had a need. That horn does everything I need it to do, and it does it all quite well. From what I've read and seen, the newest generation of the ACB Doubler with the 100% copper bell seems to be even better than the one I have, and if something happened to mine, I'd get another one is a snap.

Disclaimer - I swapped out the leadpipe and valve springs with genuine Yamaha parts. Probably didn't "need" to but those changes did seem to improve it just a touch.

So to answer the question, "what's a good flugel for Jazz?" there really isn't an answer - it's whatever flugel you happen to have and are comfortable playing. Jazz isn't a piece of equipment - it's a genre of music and a state of mind while playing it.
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Patrick Gleason
- Shires Model B, Marcinkiewicz #2, Warburton 4SVW/KT
- Brasspire Unicorn C, Pickett/Shires 3C

"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP
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GeorgeB
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Joined: 20 Apr 2016
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Location: New Glasgow, Nova Scotia

PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have an invitation to join a brass quintet if I own a Flugel, which I don't. I haven't decided yet if I am going to join the quintet but if I do I'll go with Trent's doubler.
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GeorgeB
Manchester Brass Custom ( ACB ) RL-GB pro B flat trumpet
1942 Buescher 400 225 (ML Bore ) Bb trumpet
1952 Selmer Paris 21 B flat trumpet
1959 Selmer Paris 24B
1999 Conn Vintage One B flat trumpet
Getzen 490 Bb
1962 Conn Victor 5A cornet
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trickg
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Joined: 02 Jan 2002
Posts: 5266
Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland

PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GeorgeB wrote:
I have an invitation to join a brass quintet if I own a Flugel, which I don't. I haven't decided yet if I am going to join the quintet but if I do I'll go with Trent's doubler.

It's tough to go wrong with that horn - the value for the dollar is actually pretty unreal.
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Patrick Gleason
- Shires Model B, Marcinkiewicz #2, Warburton 4SVW/KT
- Brasspire Unicorn C, Pickett/Shires 3C

"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP
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GeorgeB
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Joined: 20 Apr 2016
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Location: New Glasgow, Nova Scotia

PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was thinking that way, Patrick, and after reading how much you like yours , well that pretty much settled it for me. I may get one, even if I decide not to join the quintet.
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GeorgeB
Manchester Brass Custom ( ACB ) RL-GB pro B flat trumpet
1942 Buescher 400 225 (ML Bore ) Bb trumpet
1952 Selmer Paris 21 B flat trumpet
1959 Selmer Paris 24B
1999 Conn Vintage One B flat trumpet
Getzen 490 Bb
1962 Conn Victor 5A cornet
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trickg
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 02 Jan 2002
Posts: 5266
Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland

PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GeorgeB wrote:
I was thinking that way, Patrick, and after reading how much you like yours , well that pretty much settled it for me. I may get one, even if I decide not to join the quintet.

Keep in mind, my ACB Doubler is an older generation - I've heard that the newer ones are even better, if that's possible. I've done an A/B of mine with a legit Yamaha 631, and they are very very close. On mine, the bell is a bit smaller/tighter. With the Yamaha it fits on my K&M flugel stand perfectly. The ACB doesn't quit fit on it - it's just a touch tighter and as a result, it doesn't quite fit on the peg properly, although it fits well enough that it's stable and doesn't get stuck. It doesn't seem to affect the blow or the sound though.

I don't know if the bells on the new ones are a bit closer to the Yamaha or if they retain the same shape and flare as the original ACB Doubler, but either way, I'd order one blind with confidence that it was going to be decent.
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Patrick Gleason
- Shires Model B, Marcinkiewicz #2, Warburton 4SVW/KT
- Brasspire Unicorn C, Pickett/Shires 3C

"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP


Last edited by trickg on Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:49 am; edited 1 time in total
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kehaulani
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Joined: 23 Mar 2003
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Location: Hawai`i - Texas

PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

George, I don't know how critical the use of the instrument, itself, is but I've put this to good use in the past. Not cheap, but cheaper than buying a new horn. Depending on how you want to use it, this may be a good alternative.
https://trumpetmouthpiece.com/collections/trumpet/products/c2j-trumpet-mouthpiece-for-flugelhorn-sound
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"Even if I could play like Wynton Marsalis, I wouldn't play like Wynton Marsalis."
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GeorgeB
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Joined: 20 Apr 2016
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Location: New Glasgow, Nova Scotia

PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:
George, I don't know how critical the use of the instrument, itself, is but I've put this to good use in the past. Not cheap, but cheaper than buying a new horn. Depending on how you want to use it, this may be a good alternative.
https://trumpetmouthpiece.com/collections/trumpet/products/c2j-trumpet-mouthpiece-for-flugelhorn-sound


Thanks, kehaulani. I'd be replacing a Flugel player who is leaving the group so the invitation is dependent on my owning and playing the Flugel.
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GeorgeB
Manchester Brass Custom ( ACB ) RL-GB pro B flat trumpet
1942 Buescher 400 225 (ML Bore ) Bb trumpet
1952 Selmer Paris 21 B flat trumpet
1959 Selmer Paris 24B
1999 Conn Vintage One B flat trumpet
Getzen 490 Bb
1962 Conn Victor 5A cornet
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