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Orchestral trumpet routine



 
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gg21wvtrumpet
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:44 pm    Post subject: Orchestral trumpet routine Reply with quote

Hi there, would anyone mind sharing what general structure of a routine they used in order to win a job for orchestral playing?

Thanks!
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royjohn
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't have one of these, but I can give you a few references. At the William Vacchiano site, there is a page for a lecture on Vacchiano and his approach to instruction which should be helpful. Chris Gekker has published a Summer Practice Routine that is rather rigorous and should give you an idea of that Gekker might expect from his Master's level students. David Hickman publishes a five volume set of "Trumpet Lessons with David Hickman" which covers all aspects of trumpet playing.

I've discussed trumpet instruction with a professional trumpet playing friend who studied with Vacchiano and he, as well as others who knew Vacchiano remarked on Vacchiano's emphasis on transposition skills. The idea of facile transposition is to be able to play any piece on the trumpet which makes it easiest to manage technically and musically. On any given piece, the various members of the section might all be playing on instruments in different keys. Or not. Fingering, timbre and intonation issues all figure into this.

In addition to the above, I would look around the internet for comments by the various famous orchestral trumpet virtuosi of today and yesteryear and look for instructional videos by these folks on Youtube. There are precious few orchestral jobs, so preparing for orchestral auditions is a labor of love that should take place over a number of years. So I'd look into various places for tips and programs. You probably have heard of the idea that mastering a difficult skill takes 10,000 hours. Even assuming you have half that under your belt, practicing six hours a day, it will take you over two years to get the second 5,000 hours. So spending some time figuring out how to map all this out would be a worthwhile endeavor.[/i]
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Dayton
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good response from royjon. I'll add a few things.

First, when you are checking out videos, I would prioritize those of professors like Barbara Butler and Jim Wilt who have an established track record of helping students prepare to land jobs in orchestras.

Second, as you look at routines, recognize that routines work best when tailored to meet the needs of the individual. That's what great teachers like Adam, Caruso, Schlossberg, Vacchiano...did, and Butler and Wilt do.

Finally, a lot of players talk about what the did to prepare for an audition, and the routine associated with that, and less about the routine they followed to be in a position where they were ready to take auditions (which likely changed over time). My impression is that you are interested in the latter. If so, and it is because you want a job in an orchestra rather than general curiosity, one way to approach this would be to see who has landed jobs recently and get lessons from their teachers with the specific goal of feedback that helps you put your routine together -- what to practice and how to do so -- to put you in a position where you are ready for auditions.

Good luck!
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Steve A
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:53 am    Post subject: Re: Orchestral trumpet routine Reply with quote

gg21wvtrumpet wrote:
Hi there, would anyone mind sharing what general structure of a routine they used in order to win a job for orchestral playing?

Thanks!


I think that this is not a question where you're likely to get many answers that are useful and fit exactly what you're asking for. The preparation used by someone who's in grad school and preparing for a pro audition vs the work done by someone who's already been in the field for 20 years are going to be quite different, and any of these routines are already going to be highly individual. Also, I think that the degree to which the orchestral path is made out to be more different than other types of playing is often exaggerated or misunderstood. For sure there are specific things that orchestrally oriented players work on more than most other people, but it's still basically a question of a being a great trumpet player, and a great musician, and playing a bunch of music in a way that discerning audiences enjoy. If you're already in a position where your fundamentals are strong enough that you're capable of playing at that high of a level, and just require some fine-tuning to come out on top in an audition, well, I suspect you've probably already got a good idea of what you need to break through, and would be wasting time asking the internet for ideas, rather than making the trip to play your excerpts for someone with a track record of placing students in top orchestras to hear what they think you need. Not knowing anything about you (obviously), I have no idea if you're at that level, but in the vast, vast majority of cases, people start asking these questions before they're good enough at the basics for it to be a productive use of their time. In those cases, focusing on the general pool of skills that go into being a great trumpet player is probably a better approach than detailed audition prep routines.

But, taking a crack at this: as far as skills that are probably common to successful orchestral preparation routines and (to a degree) different than other types of playing, IMO, orchestral playing makes initial attacks more critical and challenging than some other types of playing, since you tend to sit for so long between entrances, often don't play that many notes in the first place, and your place in the overall balance is very sensitive, and often dynamically challenging. (Read: quiet.) Working on something to improve the ability to enter confidently and consistently on any note in your range at any volume with a great sound and pop to your articulation are probably especially valuable skills to build for orchestral auditions.

Also, this is specific to orchestral auditions in a way that probably is more true than for other types of playing - in a typical first round, you'll probably play Eb (Haydn/Hummel), Bb (Carmen Prelude), and C (the rest) all in the space of 10 minutes, and where every note is potentially a real opportunity to change the course of your life to come. Getting so that you can switch between horns while still preserving your very best playing (rather than having the first three note be so-so, then getting on track after a switch) would is probably especially important for orchestral auditions.

But, you'll probably get better answers if you tell us a bit more about why you're asking this - are you in school and aspiring to become an orchestral player? Are you already working and looking for new practice ideas? Are you neither of those things, but just generally curious?
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JoseLindE4
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is advice that's stolen (and probably modified) from Tony Prisk:

When getting ready for a specific audition, figure out what skills are needed to play the excerpts well and build a portion of your fundamentals around developing those skills.

So your fundamentals fall into two boxes:

1. Normal maintenance to keep things working well and progressing.
2. The skills that need to be nailed down for a specific audition.

If you have developed the skills to play the excerpts well, you should be able to play the excerpts well.
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trumpetera
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The mental preparation is crucial, IMHO.

Meaning the ability to play the music at your very best under the mental pressure in an audition situation.

That is one of the things I emphasise in preparing my students for auditions.
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andybharms
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 4:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One take I would add in addition to some of the good advice above is that in orchestral playing, sound, musical stage setting, and very clear characters are of paramount importance. So it isn’t so much about “routine” as it is about “process.”

I’m of the opinion that the trumpet is really not all that hard, in that most of the difficulties are those that we create, so a lot of the work is cerebral/conceptual. If we can get to the bottom of our own baggage then the sound and technique work becomes very natural and the trumpet is the easy part. So I see a lot of the work centered around making sure our production is free and clear, then each day getting into the nitty of the characters off the instrument and making sure we don’t bring our junk into the music. There is also some reinforcing any specific skills we know we need to address daily. Past that, staying fresh and flexible is important, so continuing to work on etudes helps me.

Kristian Steenstrup has, in my view, a very compelling approach to this. I’m not qualified to go into great detail, but it is a lot of listening, a lot of reflective practicing, a lot of “pre-flective” practicing, singing, etc. I think it is hard for some to accept that so much of the work happens before the trumpet even gets picked up.
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abontrumpet
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

andybharms wrote:
I’m not qualified to go into great detail, but it is a lot of listening, a lot of reflective practicing, a lot of “pre-flective” practicing, singing, etc. I think it is hard for some to accept that so much of the work happens before the trumpet even gets picked up.


All around great advice from Andy. The quoted particular passage reminds me of one of my favorite articles from John Hagstrom: https://www.dansr.com/wick/resources/preparing-to-become-a-professional-musician-part-one

Some more resources include Barbara Butler's laundry list: extreme highs and lows, extreme loud and soft, lip slurs, lip trill, beauty of sound, power of sound, single tongue, double tongue, triple tongue, metronome, slow tempi, fast tempi, sight reading, transposition, initial attack, trills, turns, ornaments, other horns, lyrical, articulation, technical, intonation.

There are routines from Chris Martin, Michael Sachs, and tons of others out there.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Some more resources include Barbara Butler's laundry list: extreme highs and lows, extreme loud and soft, lip slurs, lip trill, beauty of sound, power of sound, single tongue, double tongue, triple tongue, metronome, slow tempi, fast tempi, sight reading, transposition, initial attack, trills, turns, ornaments, other horns, lyrical, articulation, technical, intonation."

Is there anything missing from this list that an orchestral player shouldn't be doing, anyway?

Seriously, not sarcastic - what's missing?
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Scooter Pirtle
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:
”Is there anything missing from this list that an orchestral player shouldn't be doing, anyway?

Seriously, not sarcastic - what's missing?


Musicality?
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Jason Rogers
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:
"Some more resources include Barbara Butler's laundry list: extreme highs and lows, extreme loud and soft, lip slurs, lip trill, beauty of sound, power of sound, single tongue, double tongue, triple tongue, metronome, slow tempi, fast tempi, sight reading, transposition, initial attack, trills, turns, ornaments, other horns, lyrical, articulation, technical, intonation."

Is there anything missing from this list that an orchestral player shouldn't be doing, anyway?

Seriously, not sarcastic - what's missing?


Add to the list:
Listen to performance examples; study "performance practice"; get to know the sound of the orchestra you want to be a part of; sing; practice the most challenging excerpts and be able to play them at any moments notice; practice being an optimist; practice being a team member with collaboration skills; build trust and relationship; practice the most essential excerpts
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HaveTrumpetWillTravel
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you look for Chris Martin podcasts I think I remember where he talks about the process he used. It seemed very thoughtful and methodical. I remember being impressed by what it takes to win an audition.
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Gottfried Reiche
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I won mine with the following. It's pretty simple.

1. Practice.

2. Become an athlete on the instrument.

3. When you are an athlete on the instrument, become an artist.

4. Know the repertoire. (score study, recordings, etc.). Know how the excerpts go. Like, REALLY know.

5. Take lots of auditions.

Most people can't get past the instrument mastery. You need to not have to worry about playing the instrument, so you can just focus on making a beautiful sound and making music.

GR
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hear some disdain in between the posts for the lack of “musicality.”

I don’t disagree that the process isn’t always the most musical, although at most auditions there are plenty of opportunities to express artistry. But it is different in an audition, and even on the job, than when you are playing a solo or in a quintet. I had a conducting professor who had “we are making art” posted on his door, quite sarcastically. And I would also challenge any two people to agree on what constitutes musicality. When you’re in a 52-week orchestra, with a new conductor every week, not a lot of rehearsal, etc, musicality is sometimes the right notes at the right time in the right style, with a great sound. So when we go to play an audition of 25 pieces averaging 12 bars total, it is a very different exercise than playing a whole piece in an orchestra, or recital repertoire. Not to mention most auditions are for 2nd or 3rd trumpet. Musicality in these contexts is more about contextualizing the excerpt so that a committee knows that you know how it works in the group, not playing a phrase of the bottom part of Beethoven 5 like a square trapped in a circle.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 7:12 am    Post subject: Orchestral Trumpet Routine Reply with quote

Who better to explain the development of orchestral trumpet technique than Herseth?:

PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2002 5:10 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
Herseth lesson notes.
Notes taken by Tim Kent during lessons he took with the master, Adolph Herseth.

The Practice Session and All Playing.

Practice long tones in all registers and volumes.
Overlap single tonguing speed with double and triple speeds.
Solfege--Sight sing--buzz excerpts and studies.
There are appropriate times for beauty and crudeness - use both.
Sound is criterion for how you do this or that.
Melodic playing is very, very important. Know the importance of TONE, even in technical passages.
Play tunes in high range, also pick off high notes for practice.
Remember-shaky high range can be due to letting up before hitting the note--rather take the lump and blow, that is the only way to be great. If you let up on all the notes, endurance is lost, and the overall sound is sickening.
Be consistent, and NEVER PRACTICE BUT ALWAYS PERFORM.
Never have any tension in the body when playing, just learn to always relax.
Don't favor slurs, and in fact, DON"T FAVOR ANY NOTES.
Only practice in 45 minute sessions, that is what Bud does.
There is nothing wrong with your chops, your mind is messing them up. High register is no more physical than low, it should be as easy and sound just as good. Don't make such an issue of it. This habit must be worked out and will eventually go away, however there is only one way to get rid of this bad habit, and that is to apply concepts every day in your playing.
Play arpeggios to get all ranges to sound good by being in tune and listening to the sound.
Play Bud's exercises; like singers do.
Don't think mechanics at all on the high range, just play and listen.
When a note sounds beautiful, it is in tune(and vice versa)
Approach on the lines of good sound and intonation will come there too. The ear will do all the work if you let it.
Say "tay" on the lower register to get away from the tubby sound.
Increase air on the lower register. D and B are good examples of good low range sound.
D, E, and E flat - let them float up to where they belong.
Don't think, just play beautifully. Your ear will tell you, and do all the work for you if you allow it to. Don't try to place notes, but let them go where they want.
After working on the mouthpiece, do the same on the horn. Play everything from excerpts to to pop tunes on it to do things musically. Remember you are performing these pieces, and not practicing them.
NEVER PRACTICE, ALWAYS PERFORM.
When encountering problems, technically or musically, sing them and play them on the mouthpiece. Then transfer this singing through the horn. Also, add words for added expressiveness, and sing these words through the horn. When a person sings, he does it in a naturally musical way.
Always take 10 minutes or so off after the first 15-20 minutes of playing (the warmup).
Rest, like Bud. FEEL FRESH ALL THE TIME.
Project a message when you play, never impress with mere mechanics.
Put words to everything.
THINK ONLY WHAT IT SOUNDS LIKE, NOT WHAT IT FEELS LIKE!
Practice solos much more than drills or exercises for tonguing. Every time Bud learns a new solo (or rehearses one) it adds a new spark to his playing. Vocalize through the horn. Get a message across to the people - tell them a story, an interesting one. REMEMBER THINGS THAT YOU DO NOW WILL BECOME CONSISTANT LATER AS YOU APPLY CONCEPTS.
Pulse the primary point - it keeps the music moving, and makes the overall sound more musical.
Practice all three forms of tonguing; only use legato for extreme double and triple tonguing, to make this tonguing move very fast.
Slur all technical passages first so you get the tones in mind.
Do same as above for staccato passages also.
In all technical and lyrical passages, remember that first and foremost is
TONE QUALITY and MUSICALITY.
When playing slowly, remember that tongue and fingers have to move as fast as usual.
Everybody comes in late after rests, do something about it.
Keep dynamics through phrase, and keep dynamics consistent.
Keep slurs smooth, don't jolt them - they are easy.
High range is not a seperate part of trumpet playing, yet most players make such a big deal of it. It is not any more physical than any other aspects of trumpet playing, rather it should be just as musical. Just move the air more and keep a good sound, and it will always be there.
High C is not sharp, it's high C. No notes are naturally sharp. Just play and listen for the best sound and you will be in tune. It is very important that you think sound and not intonation. The intonation will be there if the sound is.
It is important to hear the note played before playing it. If you do, it will be there.
High range - don't just think "high" before you play and expect to be able to play it.
On releases - know how long you want to hold the note, and then stop it. Don't just hold it until it stops.
On soft playing - play soft as if you are playing loud. Flow air the same as a forte.
Picture the whole phrase before you start to play. Do this all the time.
Every note must have direction - always must be going somewhere.
For high range, just use good air flow, with ease of middle and low registers.
Practice a tune in all registers. Do this often, it will tell whether you are using the right concepts.
Balance exercises with solos (music)
Practice a session on just the mouthpiece.
Tonguing has to be 5% consonant and 95% vowel. To much tongue inhibits the air flow. Use no more tongue than in normal speech, and release air immediately.
Think SOUND always - loud and soft.
Never practice- always perform.
Practice various ways of articulating everything. (excerpts, solos, etc. i.e. slur Petroushka solo, tongue Schlossberg #18, etc.)
Get the sound you want in your head first, then play it. Listen as much as possible.
Send a message when you play.
USE ONLY MECHANICS TO THINK OF PLAYING AS A WHOLE, AND BREATHING, AND ALL THE REST IS MUSIC.
Play by sound, not by feel.
Never work harder than necessary for a desired result.
Do interval exercises (all articulations).
Accent is not more tongue, but more air.
For etude practice, get them clean slowly, then speed them up.
Melodic playing is very important. Know importance of tone (even in technical passages).
When you get high horns, play tune on them, then take low horn and play same pitches the same way. You will forget which horn is which.
Relate little horns to the big ones. The same concepts apply.
WHEN YOU MAKE A MISTAKE, BE PROUD OF IT. PUT YOUR HORN DOWN AND STARE AT THE CONDUCTOR. UNLESS HIS EAR IS GREAT, HE WON'T KNOW. IF HE DOES, FINE!
NEVER PRACTICE, PERFORM.
Don't just listen to yourself on ensemble playing - let the ensemble help you on your entrances so you can be part of it and not playing along with it. All accompaniments will help you to play. Have them in your head so you just don't play out of context.
Listen to good artists, and know what you want.
A trumpeter's life is risky, and you have to be able to take those risks. No great playing is accomplished if a person is afraid of playing. To be timid or favor notes or ranges is running away from that risk.
DON'T THINK YOU HAVE PROBLEMS TO WORRY ABOUT IN YOUR PLAYING, JUST CERTAIN ASPECTS OF YOUR PLAYING AREN'T PERFECTED YET. DON'T WORRY ABOUT ANYTHING IN YOUR PLAYING, JUST ENJOY IT!
Practice on the mouthpiece every day before your regular session. Walk around and play anything musical (no drills) from excerpts to pop tunes. Concentrate on being very musical on these pieces, and most important, on a very LARGE SOUND on the mouthpiece.
The mouthpiece, because of the lack of divisions, it is possible to go over all ranges, and it forces you to use your ear. Also in emergency situations, it can be used as a substitute for regular practice on the horn.
Play a complete session on the mouthpiece once in a while. This keeps you from getting hangups on the horn, and improves everything from sound to articualtion.
Whenever you are having problems on any piece, play it on the mouthpiece.
Play no drills on the mouthpiece, only music.
REMEMBER - BIG SOUND ALL THE TIME.
When taking a breath, pronounce the word "ho" yet inhaling at the same time.
When using this method for practice, put hand on stomach and chest - it should move out on its own due to lungs filling up.
For getting the feeling of an absolutely open airway and flow, put one end of a toilet paper roll in mouth and inhale - note the equal ease of inhaling and exhaling.
Breathe from low in the lungs rather than from the chest. If done correctly, the stomach will go out on its own.
To get a big sound, it is imperative that the air flow (or movement) is greater. The pressure of air flow is not what creates the big sound, it is much the same as violin, which creates a bigger sound when the bow is moved faster across the strings then from pressure on the strings.
Release air immediately - don't hold it.
Differences between cornet and trumpet - there is none due to modern methods of construction. Most of sound difference is due to bends in tubing, rather than conical vs. cylindrical bores.
Stravinsky pieces - in world premieres of many of his works, Stravinsky said that cornets need not be used because of little difference between them and trumpets.
Keep your horn free from ANY dirt inside. Clean it weekly if necessary. Clean mouthpiece daily. Clean horns and mouthpieces so nothing is ever in the horn.
To have good all around range you have to have good pedal tones. This is due to more and better vibrations producing more harmonics and a richer sound.
Slur pedal tone from octave, finger according to chart below:
C - open, B - open, Bb - 2, A - 2, Ab - 1, G - 12, F# - 23, F - 13, Eb - 123
Play pedal tones on both Bb and C horns (harder on Bb)
Slur and tongue down from normal notes an octave to pedal, so you have an in tune note to relate it to.
Don't overblow, just blow to get the best sound.
Do Carnival of Venice starting on pedal C
I would rather jump right in and make mistakes than be timid.
Essence of Bud's lessons is that he builds ego, attitude, and musicianship. He lets the technical things work themselves out.
Have the attitude of "I can play anything". This is necessary for great trumpet playing.
Always, after hearing someone play something, say "I can do it better, or if not better, different."
Whenever you have difficulty technically, think of the passage more musically, that's what is wrong.
The reason Herseth is better than you are, is not that he tries harder, but he thinks musically. It is amazing what the chops can do when you get the head out of the way!
Don't over-warmup for a performance; always go in a little under warmed up. Just warmup as low and high as the piece will go, that's all, then quit.
On any orchestral excerpt, study the scores and listen to recordings. Remember that Bud really believes in listening as a teaching guide to good playing. Never play any isolated notes in orchestra. Always be aware of the color that you add and know your role. Know what is important. Remember that there are different interpretations ( that is important). Don't just go by one recording.
Always be heard - no matter the dynamics.
When studying the score, know how it is to sound, and don't change unless the conductor forces you to. Don't wait to be told, if he isn't taking your tempo, change it.
For your own personal satisfaction, DO THE BEST JOB THAT CAN BE DONE!
IT IS NOT A MATTER OF BEING BETTER THAN ANYONE ELSE, HOW CAN YOU LOVE TRYING TO BE BETTER THAN ANYONE ELSE. PLAY FOR YOUR OWN SATISFACTION, AND FOR OTHERS ENJOYMENT.
IF I COULDN'T PLAY THIS THING AS WELL AS IT COULD BE PLAYED, I WOULDN'T PLAY IT!!!!
Don't think of auditioning for a job, or against someone, just offer what music you have to offer. If they like it, fine. If not, that's fine too, go somewhere else. Just make music and enjoy yourself. If you do get excited, apply it to the music and not to the situation. Your goal should be to play as well as Bud, not to have a particular job!!!
Be anxious to play, not afraid to play.
Sound is criterion for how you play and whether you are doing things right.
Say "tu" with the tongue for fast and nice sounding tonguing. This keeps it out of the way, or it will hinder the sound. It also keeps multiple tonguing faster and more even. Do lip trills daily for strong and more dependable high range.
You never really know how much Doc and Bud hurt when they are playing, just play beautifully and forget how it feels.
Don't only try for musicality and precision in performance, try all the time as in performance. REMEMBER - NEVER PRACTICE, ALWAYS PERFORM.
LIVE!!!!! Play and show you are alive, and have something to say to the audience.
The horn is just a megaphone of yourself, show them how you feel!
Don't overblow. Take it easy. You will play better if you don't actually blow so hard, and concentrate on the actual volume of air for a BIG SOUND.
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raynjtrumpet
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 3:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Orchestral Trumpet Routine Reply with quote

Jason Rogers wrote:
Who better to explain the development of orchestral trumpet technique than Herseth?:

PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2002 5:10 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
Herseth lesson notes.
Notes taken by Tim Kent during lessons he took with the master, Adolph Herseth.
[Most of post deleted, just showing beginning and end for clarity as to which post I'm referring to]
Don't overblow. Take it easy. You will play better if you don't actually blow so hard, and concentrate on the actual volume of air for a BIG SOUND.


Jason, thanks so much for sharing all this. I think it's some of the most helpful stuff I've seen on practice routine. I've printed it out and put it on my music stand so I can reflect on it daily.

And of course, gratitude to Tim Kent for taking such great notes and to the late Bud Herseth himself.

Ray
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