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1912 King Master trumpet



 
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giakara
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:02 pm    Post subject: 1912 King Master trumpet Reply with quote

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-1912-H-N-White-KING-MASTER-Trumpet-Silver-Pro-Horn-w-MANY-EXTRAS-/353586425100?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0

Hello guys, the safari continues and my collection has a new member , this babe looks great and I am very curious for more infos , did someone has experience from this or similar King master I won?

Regards
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Brassnose
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have absolutely no infos for you but congrats on the new horn! I like your motto „the safari continues“ and will adapt it for my own brass life
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giakara
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wish my wife to have the same way of thinking like you ......

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OldSchoolEuph
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I would date it to 1917 based on that serial number (which makes sense given the model's mid-15 introduction to the market).

That looks like a complete (other than the lyre) HP/LP kit in the original case. The low pitch tuning slide is installed in the photo with the high pitch valve slides.

There was also a Master Model Vocal C trumpet that was a C/Bb/A model. While the straight Bb/A you have was discontinued in 1918 in favor of the first Liberty trumpet, the vocal version of this remained in production until almost WW2.

This horn replaced the "Improved Model" version of the King "Small Bore Trumpet", the original Small Bore being White's first trumpet model some time after 1900 (probably close to 1909 when the new factory opened)

This is not a modern trumpet, and will not play like one. This horn is from a transitional time when the trumpet was taking hold, displacing the cornet, starting in the club scene. When this was made, the only serious orchestral trumpets that we would recognize by sound and feel today were the F.Besson Brevete (not a real model name, but we don't have a model name for them so we use the bell marking) designed around 1880, and the New Holton Trumpet, designed in 1910. The King Liberty would be White's first modern trumpet, roughly 2-1/2 years ahead of Conn's first (Yes, Conn had "Symphony" trumpets dating back to the 19-O's, but play one, they are not by any stretch what they are named) Martin also had a "Symphony" trumpet starting around 1914, but again, it was orchestral in name only.

The King Master Model trumpet fits with the Martin and Conn "Symphony" trumpets as looking in the right direction, but not having found that sound yet. It embodies that time of transition from cornet dominance to trumpet, as the trumpet found its voice.
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giakara
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OldSchoolEuph wrote:
Well I would date it to 1917 based on that serial number (which makes sense given the model's mid-15 introduction to the market).

That looks like a complete (other than the lyre) HP/LP kit in the original case. The low pitch tuning slide is installed in the photo with the high pitch valve slides.

There was also a Master Model Vocal C trumpet that was a C/Bb/A model. While the straight Bb/A you have was discontinued in 1918 in favor of the first Liberty trumpet, the vocal version of this remained in production until almost WW2.

This horn replaced the "Improved Model" version of the King "Small Bore Trumpet", the original Small Bore being White's first trumpet model some time after 1900 (probably close to 1909 when the new factory opened)

This is not a modern trumpet, and will not play like one. This horn is from a transitional time when the trumpet was taking hold, displacing the cornet, starting in the club scene. When this was made, the only serious orchestral trumpets that we would recognize by sound and feel today were the F.Besson Brevete (not a real model name, but we don't have a model name for them so we use the bell marking) designed around 1880, and the New Holton Trumpet, designed in 1910. The King Liberty would be White's first modern trumpet, roughly 2-1/2 years ahead of Conn's first (Yes, Conn had "Symphony" trumpets dating back to the 19-O's, but play one, they are not by any stretch what they are named) Martin also had a "Symphony" trumpet starting around 1914, but again, it was orchestral in name only.

The King Master Model trumpet fits with the Martin and Conn "Symphony" trumpets as looking in the right direction, but not having found that sound yet. It embodies that time of transition from cornet dominance to trumpet, as the trumpet found its voice.



Thanks for the infos and the historical facts , I am very curious about the blow and how it feels in comparison with modern open blow horns.

Regards
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OldSchoolEuph
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

giakara wrote:
I am very curious about the blow and how it feels in comparison with modern open blow horns.


Very resistive. It has a more metallic tone quality, and the original valve fit was not particularly tight. It will fight back as you go up in range, but it has a sound quality that is a more "straight" version of that classic 20s dance band trumpet (like a Vega, or a Martin Dansant), just less sizzle and a bit more core. As you try to draw out that core and make it ring like a modern horn, it takes a lot of energy, so it feels pretty stuffy. If you try to put a lot of power through it, it will just distort. But if you relax and let it play naturally, while the tone will sound a bit odd to your ear, it wont be too hard a blow (until you try for high notes).

It works better for 19th century cornet music than a trumpet should - just a bit strident for what that should sound like. But that sort of light touch playing is what suits it best.
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giakara
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a good collection of vintage mpcs like Selmers,Parduba, Purviance and others and some of them like the Berkeley legends louis Armstrong Giardinelli mouthpiece copy has a huge bbore and I wonder if this will balance the tight bore.

Regards
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OldSchoolEuph
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

giakara wrote:
I have a good collection of vintage mpcs like Selmers,Parduba, Purviance and others and some of them like the Berkeley legends louis Armstrong Giardinelli mouthpiece copy has a huge bbore and I wonder if this will balance the tight bore.

Regards


The receiver has a steep taper. The mouthpieces in the case are original to the horn and will fit, but modern ones will wobble. They will match it better than anything else.

The bore is a non-issue. The heavy construction (of the horn itself - big ferrules, big braces, heavy wall tubing, the A stop clamp and excessively long slide legs, etc.), brace placement, bell taper, and short leadpipe are what create both the sound and the feel of the horn (along with valves that are not tight). Given the short (thus fast) leadpipe, a fast backbore mouthpiece would definitely not help.
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TrumpetHippy
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You scored a cool historical piece for a killer price! I see that this post is two months old now but lurkers gonna lurk, how does it blow?

I have a very early king liberty ~1915 and it is just like OldSchoolEuph describes, tight blow, if you try to fight it you lose the tone quality.
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giakara
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The horn arrived yesterday,I play it for a half hour and I realy like the sound , the feel is not too tight but the stock mpc has the BIGGEST bbore I have see and I have see a lot , I tried some of my mpcs but it doesn't work, the horn has very dirt and smells but next week I will give it a very good bath and I will play it more extensive.

Regards
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Carol mini pocket
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chef8489
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

giakara wrote:
The horn arrived yesterday,I play it for a half hour and I realy like the sound , the feel is not too tight but the stock mpc has the BIGGEST bbore I have see and I have see a lot , I tried some of my mpcs but it doesn't work, the horn has very dirt and smells but next week I will give it a very good bath and I will play it more extensive.

Regards

once clean should make a video of it. Would love to hear it.
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giakara
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chef8489 wrote:
giakara wrote:
The horn arrived yesterday,I play it for a half hour and I realy like the sound , the feel is not too tight but the stock mpc has the BIGGEST bbore I have see and I have see a lot , I tried some of my mpcs but it doesn't work, the horn has very dirt and smells but next week I will give it a very good bath and I will play it more extensive.

Regards

once clean should make a video of it. Would love to hear it.


Unfortunately I never make it to post here a picc or a video , I guess I am to old for this...but the horn like all the vintage horns I have in my collection have a completely different sound from the new ones , the bells are more vibrant and the sound have more personality , different sound concept that I believe that it can work in modern musically environments, specifically amplified but very charming and nostalgic for me.

Regards
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Lawler TL6-1A Bb 2004
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2003
Getzen eterna 910 C
Getzen eterna 850 cornet
Selmer Paris 3 valve picc
Yamaha 731 flugel
Carol mini pocket
Reeves/Purviance mpcs
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