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Need mp suggestion for vintage King horns.


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chef8489
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 12:08 am    Post subject: Need mp suggestion for vintage King horns. Reply with quote

I have a vintage 1055t other way and plan on getting a super 20 silver sonic symphony again. I currently use a Bach 1.5b megatone with my Bach 72 and sometimes use a 3b megatone.

I could use some suggestions that would work well with these vintage kings. I can't remember what I used on my super 20 as that was a while ago and a lot has happened since then.
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Seymor B Fudd
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 1:42 am    Post subject: Re: Need mp suggestion for vintage King horns. Reply with quote

chef8489 wrote:
I have a vintage 1055t other way and plan on getting a super 20 silver sonic symphony again. I currently use a Bach 1.5b megatone with my Bach 72 and sometimes use a 3b megatone.

I could use some suggestions that would work well with these vintage kings. I can't remember what I used on my super 20 as that was a while ago and a lot has happened since then.


For what it´s worth: I used a Vincent Bach (1970) 1 1/4 C with my King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970) - because it was suggested to me. Never thought of anything else. In retrospect I think that this was a good choice; the horn was a bit soft(=a bit more "orchestral") in comparison with horns like Benge, Bach, Olds etc etc when used in a big band.
So a mpc that is well suited for the general setting, be this a big band or at classical work - should be the best choice. My horn has a very focused yet rich/soft sound palette - not as bright as many other horns.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why not first get accustomed to a MOR Bach 3C and then contact one of the mpc. makers with a good track record of mpc. consultations for their opinion and with your requirements. In a case like this, a knowledgeable extra set of ears can be helpful.

Charge/gratis depends on the maker but even if you have to pay, that's a lot cheaper than a multi-mpc Safari.
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chef8489
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:
Why not first get accustomed to a MOR Bach 3C and then contact one of the mpc. makers with a good track record of mpc. consultations for their opinion and with your requirements. In a case like this, a knowledgeable extra set of ears can be helpful.

Charge/gratis depends on the maker but even if you have to pay, that's a lot cheaper than a multi-mpc Safari.


I really don't care for a 3c to begin with. It's been a while, but always preferred a b cup to a c cup.
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Dale Proctor
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chef8489 wrote:
…I really don't care for a 3c to begin with. It's been a while, but always preferred a b cup to a c cup.

For what it’s worth, the Bach 3C has about the most shallow C cup they make. I don’t like it either, but a 1-1/2 C has a deeper cup, is practically the same width as the 3C, and facilitates a much better sound.
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

uh .... I think that 'what type of sound' you want to produce - as compared to the current sound of your Bach 72 setup - is a critical question.

Do you want a 'vintage King' sound? And if so what recordings or videos are you using as examples?

The mouthpiece I use on my Super 20 (1048) is a Bach 7, which has a cup similar to a 7B.
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Tpt_Guy
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:
Why not first get accustomed to a MOR Bach 3C...


What is that?
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Halflip
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tpt_Guy wrote:
kehaulani wrote:
Why not first get accustomed to a MOR Bach 3C...


What is that?


"Middle Of (the) Road" is the translation I found on the internet that seems most applicable. In other words, a regular, 'plain vanilla' Bach 3C which I imagine is being suggested as a good 'in between' starting point within the spectrum of mouthpiece choices.


Last edited by Halflip on Sat Sep 18, 2021 5:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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chef8489
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe I should actually try a vintage bach 3c piece. It's been a while since I tried a 3c. Is it the Mt Vernon era from the 60s and 70s?
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Last edited by chef8489 on Sat Sep 18, 2021 5:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Halflip
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chef8489 wrote:
. . . Is it the Mt Vernon error from the 60s and 70s?


Do you mean 'Mt Vernon era? If so, Wikipedia says that the Mount Vernon period in the history of the Vincent Bach Corporation ran from 1953 through 1964 (although Selmer was in charge from mid '63 through '64, prior to the move to Elkhart).
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chef8489
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Halflip wrote:
chef8489 wrote:
. . . Is it the Mt Vernon error from the 60s and 70s?


Do you mean 'Mt Vernon era? If so, Wikipedia says that the Mount Vernon period in the history of the Vincent Bach Corporation ran from 1953 through 1964 (although Selmer was in charge from mid '63 through '64, prior to the move to Elkhart).

Of course lol. Typing on phone and it's being stupid.
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Dale Proctor
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you want a better 3C, buy a Curry 3C. mouthpiece. It’s a copy of a Mt. Vernon 3C and is great - a bit deeper and very comfortable. I switched to one from a Bach 3C and never looked back.
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Andy Cooper
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 9:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Need mp suggestion for vintage King horns. Reply with quote

chef8489 wrote:
I have a vintage 1055t other way and plan on getting a super 20 silver sonic symphony again. I currently use a Bach 1.5b megatone with my Bach 72 and sometimes use a 3b megatone.

I could use some suggestions that would work well with these vintage kings. I can't remember what I used on my super 20 as that was a while ago and a lot has happened since then.


I know that I'm a broken record on this topic but check the mouthpiece gap.

My King had a gap of at least .333 - yes that's correct. This turns up in older King student horns too and some UMI Benges. A Super 20 will play just fine with that much gap but blows about like a ML Bach. When the gap is reduced to about 1/8 of an inch it becomes a very open blowing horn. With reduced gap you should be able to be heard over a section - it should not be "soft". You might even want a tighter mouthpiece backbore like a Warburton 5* or 6.

There is not enough receiver thickness to ream the Super 20 receiver. If the gap is too big, either move the receiver, replace it or have a mouthpiece shank turned down. I've used everything from a Schilke 22 to a Bach 11A on a Super 20 so it really just depends on what sound you want. I would try some standard weight mouthpieces though.
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chef8489
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2021 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dale Proctor wrote:
chef8489 wrote:
…I really don't care for a 3c to begin with. It's been a while, but always preferred a b cup to a c cup.

For what it’s worth, the Bach 3C has about the most shallow C cup they make. I don’t like it either, but a 1-1/2 C has a deeper cup, is practically the same width as the 3C, and facilitates a much better sound.


So are you thinking I should try a standard weight 1.5c? Should I try a Bach piece or a different brand?
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Dale Proctor
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2021 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chef8489 wrote:
Dale Proctor wrote:
chef8489 wrote:
…I really don't care for a 3c to begin with. It's been a while, but always preferred a b cup to a c cup.

For what it’s worth, the Bach 3C has about the most shallow C cup they make. I don’t like it either, but a 1-1/2 C has a deeper cup, is practically the same width as the 3C, and facilitates a much better sound.


So are you thinking I should try a standard weight 1.5c? Should I try a Bach piece or a different brand?


I don’t like the Bach shape of the Bach B cup and the backbore that’s paired with them. If you like that, then there’s no need to try a Bach 1-1/2C. The Curry 1-1/2B is like a deeper C-shaped cup (not the funnel shape of the Bach B cup) and has a 26 throat. You might like it, and they aren’t very expensive.
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chef8489
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2021 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dale Proctor wrote:
chef8489 wrote:
Dale Proctor wrote:
chef8489 wrote:
…I really don't care for a 3c to begin with. It's been a while, but always preferred a b cup to a c cup.

For what it’s worth, the Bach 3C has about the most shallow C cup they make. I don’t like it either, but a 1-1/2 C has a deeper cup, is practically the same width as the 3C, and facilitates a much better sound.


So are you thinking I should try a standard weight 1.5c? Should I try a Bach piece or a different brand?


I don’t like the Bach shape of the Bach B cup and the backbore that’s paired with them. If you like that, then there’s no need to try a Bach 1-1/2C. The Curry 1-1/2B is like a deeper C-shaped cup (not the funnel shape of the Bach B cup) and has a 26 throat. You might like it, and they aren’t very expensive.

I was hoping to go with something a bit different sounding than my Bach symphonic sound if that makes sense. I have amazing dark core and sound. I can make my Bach 72 sound amazing with the 1.5 b megatone, I just want something a bit different with the vintage king when I get it. Something for pops, show tunes, musicals and such. Where as I use my Bach for more legit playing. Well that's the goal at least.
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Dale Proctor
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2021 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Then I’d try a standard Bach 1-1/2C.
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chef8489
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2021 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dale Proctor wrote:
Then I’d try a standard Bach 1-1/2C.

So a standard bach 1.5c over a curry 1.5c?
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Dale Proctor
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2021 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Either one. I suggested the Bach since you said you played a 1-1/2B. I’d guess the Curry is a better mouthpiece, but it may be a bit larger diameter than the Bach. It’s something you won’t know until you try them. Even though you don’t like the Bach 3C, I’d still suggest trying a Curry 3C. Its cup is a bit more roomy than the Bach, but it’s also easier to play and is a great all around mouthpiece for many people…a win-win situation.
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www.brassbandofhuntsville.com

"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham
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chef8489
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2021 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dale Proctor wrote:
Either one. I suggested the Bach since you said you played a 1-1/2B. I’d guess the Curry is a better mouthpiece, but it may be a bit larger diameter than the Bach. It’s something you won’t know until you try them. Even though you don’t like the Bach 3C, I’d still suggest trying a Curry 3C. Its cup is a bit more roomy than the Bach, but it’s also easier to play and is a great all around mouthpiece for many people…a win-win situation.

Ok I'll have a look at a curry 3c, curry 1.5c and bach artisan 1.5c. I'll do some research. I'll give my local shop a call tomorrow and see if they have anything and if not I'll look online.
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