Moving the mouthpiece

[DeweyDavis]

Is one supposed to move the mouthpiece up and down on the lips as you go to higher and lower in the register?

[HERMOKIWI]

[DeweyDavis]

Thanks HERMOKIWI.

[HERMOKIWI]

What I've described is essentially Reinhardt's "pivot system." In the high register moving the lips on the teeth in the proper direction while keeping the mouthpiece placement the same can create very substantial advantages in your ability to play higher. The movement is facilitated by raising or lowering the mouthpiece relative to the teeth as dictated by embouchure type and desired range direction and keeping the lips in their original place on the mouthpiece.

Many players will see a dramatic improvement in range, especially in ease of playing clear tones, utilizing this technique.
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HERMOKIWI

[DeweyDavis]

Hmm interesting. I need some lessons I think.

[royjohn]

I think HERMOKIWI has it about right in describing the Reinhardt "pivot system." Reinhardt preferred the term embouchure motion to pivot later in his career and thought the term pivot was an unfortunate choice of words. If you are interested in this phenomenon, you should go over to the Reinhardt forum and check out the discussion there.

On a personal note, as I have described here before, several lessons with Dave Wilken improved my setup immeasurably and provided me with reliable access to the high register. Getting clear on your type is helpful, but there are some fine points to this. In my case, Dave observed that my motion is up and slightly to the left to ascend and down and slightly to the right to descend. Now that I am playing tuba, those motions are somewhat more pronounced, altho' you do try to minimize their extent.

If your motion seems to be an issue (and it usually is), there are Reinhardt exercises to establish and routinize you embouchure motion. Rich Wiley has some instructional material on this that is available for sale at his website, www.boptism.com. I hope this info is helpful. I don't think Reinhardt's teaching gets the attention it deserves. Dave was able to solve years of frustration for me in about eight hours worth of lessons over three sessions. Just finding out that I could stop trying to cram all of my lower lip into the mpc and let it rest in the red was a revelation. I noticed the other day, going back to the horn after a layoff that I had to make sure to place my mpc far enough into the red to play well. So much for the opposing dogma you see so much of...
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royjohn
Trumpets: 1928 Holton Llewellyn Model, 1957 Holton 51LB, 2010 Custom C by Bill Jones, 2011 Custom D/Eb by Bill Jones
Flugels: 1975 Olds Superstar, 1970's Elkhardt, 1970's Getzen 4 valve
Cornet: 1970's Yamaha YCR-233S . . . and others . . .

[DeweyDavis]

[royjohn]

DeweyDavis wrote:
[/quote]That is helpful thanks. I have been doing the opposite to you. I've been cramming my top lip into the mouthpiece. Getting some high range but hurting the low. Your point about letting it rest in the red is what I need I think.[quote]

My point wasn't to tell anyone where to place the mpc, but just to illustrate that one of the tried-and-true nostrums about not playing in the red is actually wrong, at least for me.

If you are playing in the red of your top lip, you sound like a Reinhardt Type IV. Doing that isn't particularly uncommon in Type IV players. I think you might see something similar in Wynton Marsalis, if I'm remembering right. Type IV players usually have a pretty easy high range, so you shouldn't have to worry about that if you get your placement and motion right. Their disadvantage is that they often have rather bright tone...which is probably why Wynton plays such dark equipment (Monette)

So, yes, playing in the red of either lip (depending on your type)...is not wrong, nor is not playing in the red, either. It all depends on you and your particular embouchure. I have a very high placement and that is just where things fall. Trying to cram my whole bottom lip into the cup was a fool's errand and never worked. If you find the same for your top lip, that may be the problem for you. Good luck!
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royjohn
Trumpets: 1928 Holton Llewellyn Model, 1957 Holton 51LB, 2010 Custom C by Bill Jones, 2011 Custom D/Eb by Bill Jones
Flugels: 1975 Olds Superstar, 1970's Elkhardt, 1970's Getzen 4 valve
Cornet: 1970's Yamaha YCR-233S . . . and others . . .

[DeweyDavis]