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Reinhardt and Louis Dowdeswell



 
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Mike Sailors
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reinhardt and Louis Dowdeswell Reply with quote

Haven't posted here in a while, but I figured you all would like to hear this young, amazing trumpet player talk about how Reinhardt's teachings help him play the way he does.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-kOgkVUbH4&ab_channel=Musikpunkt
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krell1960
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:16 am    Post subject: Re: Reinhardt and Louis Dowdeswell Reply with quote

Mike Sailors wrote:
Haven't posted here in a while, but I figured you all would like to hear this young, amazing trumpet player talk about how Reinhardt's teachings help him play the way he does.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-kOgkVUbH4&ab_channel=Musikpunkt


Thanks for posting this mike,

great to see your name in here again, miss your informative posts.

Tom
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dstpt
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great player, as we all know.

At ~15:00 Louis mentions “pivoting.” We see him demonstrate octave leaps, during which the horn “angle” changes, and he discusses that movement here. However, this is not the Reinhardt Method as I understand it. I had heard from one who had studied directly with Doc Reinhardt that, toward the end of his life, he regretted using the term “pivot,” since so many people confused his “Pivot System” with “horn angle change.” (His system does not discount that the horn angle can change for a player during register changes.)

It makes sense for us to use the term “pivot” when it comes to changing the horn angle––you know, as we consider the hands as a fulcrum point––but Reinhardt’s “Pivot System” is described as the mouthpiece and lips being one unit “pivoting” (his word) or “gliding” (my word) on the teeth. For some it may move in an upward motion on the teeth when ascending and downward when descending, or even the opposite, all depending on the embouchure “Type,” and there are many of those. He also considered the teeth as the “inner embouchure,” and the whole thing about upstream players vs. downstream is a tenet as well. Maybe he could have changed the "Pivot System" to the “Gliding System?”

Anyway, for those who may not have time now to listen all the way through this 01:45 master class, Louis does not mention Reinhardt’s name during any of it; he only points out that he “pivots” as changing the horn angle (a motion commonly used by many players regardless of embouchure approach) as he changes registers. This should not be confused with Doc Reinhardt’s teaching. I also had this misunderstanding prior to getting first-hand teaching from those who are certified with the Reinhardt System. Perhaps Rich Willey or Dave Wilken would be willing to further clarify.
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Trumpetingbynurture
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dstpt - FWIW he has mentioned elsewhere that he has taken lessons with Chris LaBabera
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dstpt
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trumpetingbynurture wrote:
dstpt - FWIW he has mentioned elsewhere that he has taken lessons with Chris LaBabera

Good to know. I was just going by what I heard on the video Mike posted.
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bear30101
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

About 4 months ago, he did an extensive YouTube interview (in 2 parts) on the "Trumpet Diagnostics" channel. He evidently had just taken a lesson with Chris LaBarbera and had spent about three weeks of intensive work to internalize the approach. His lesson would have then followed the German workshop, and his understanding of Reinhardt is much more informed. His presentation on "Trumpet Diagnostics" is also more cogent, directed, and informative. I recommend it.(FWIW.)
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Mike Sailors
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dstpt wrote:
Great player, as we all know.

At ~15:00 Louis mentions “pivoting.” We see him demonstrate octave leaps, during which the horn “angle” changes, and he discusses that movement here. However, this is not the Reinhardt Method as I understand it. I had heard from one who had studied directly with Doc Reinhardt that, toward the end of his life, he regretted using the term “pivot,” since so many people confused his “Pivot System” with “horn angle change.” (His system does not discount that the horn angle can change for a player during register changes.)

It makes sense for us to use the term “pivot” when it comes to changing the horn angle––you know, as we consider the hands as a fulcrum point––but Reinhardt’s “Pivot System” is described as the mouthpiece and lips being one unit “pivoting” (his word) or “gliding” (my word) on the teeth. For some it may move in an upward motion on the teeth when ascending and downward when descending, or even the opposite, all depending on the embouchure “Type,” and there are many of those. He also considered the teeth as the “inner embouchure,” and the whole thing about upstream players vs. downstream is a tenet as well. Maybe he could have changed the "Pivot System" to the “Gliding System?”

Anyway, for those who may not have time now to listen all the way through this 01:45 master class, Louis does not mention Reinhardt’s name during any of it; he only points out that he “pivots” as changing the horn angle (a motion commonly used by many players regardless of embouchure approach) as he changes registers. This should not be confused with Doc Reinhardt’s teaching. I also had this misunderstanding prior to getting first-hand teaching from those who are certified with the Reinhardt System. Perhaps Rich Willey or Dave Wilken would be willing to further clarify.


I didn’t study with Doc either, and I don’t pretend to be a Reinhardt expert. That said, the teachings literally changed the trajectory of my career.

My horn angle changes exactly as Louis describes, albeit in the opposite directions (I’m IIIa).
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dstpt
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike Sailors wrote:
I didn’t study with Doc either, and I don’t pretend to be a Reinhardt expert. That said, the teachings literally changed the trajectory of my career.

My horn angle changes exactly as Louis describes, albeit in the opposite directions (I’m IIIa).

Cool. It also has helped my career immensely. Thanks for sharing the video and your own experience, Mike. I'm a Type IIIA as well.
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Trumpetingbynurture
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2021 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This, IMO, is Louis doing a much better job of explaining things:

https://youtu.be/8mhz4TQReVM

Definitely worth a watch. It is great to see people taking this stuff seriously.

As far as I can tell there's four key things:

1. Correct placement (including firmness and breathing)
2. Correct pivot
3. Correct use of the tongue.
4. Correct air support

You can get away with bad air support but get the first three wrong and you're not getting far!
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royjohn
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2021 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A surprisingly few Reinhardt oriented lessons with Dave Wilken were also a game-changer for me. I don't know where I've heard it...from reading here or in the Reinhardt Encyclopedia or from Dave, but the term used instead of pivot was "embouchure motion". This makes it clearer that the mpc and lips are gliding across the teeth as a unit. My understanding is that minimizing the extent of the motion is a good thing and the amount of it varies among players.

Another thing that I learned from Dave was that an embouchure motion can be a little skewed to the left or right and the embouchure placement can be just a little left or right from center and you may not notice it, but it's important. I seem to play just a little left of center and my motion is up and to the left to ascend and down and to the right to descend. I have a very high placement, according to Dave, and I place in the red of the lower lip with no ill effects. If I try, as I did for years, to get all of my lower lip into the mpc, nothing works right. Placing correctly and getting the embouchure motion right made all range difficulties go away. Now it's just down to whether I practice enough or not!
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Trumpets: 1928 Holton Llewellyn Model, 1957 Holton 51LB, 2010 Custom C by Bill Jones, 2011 Custom D/Eb by Bill Jones
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Wilktone
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2021 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

royjohn wrote:
A surprisingly few Reinhardt oriented lessons with Dave Wilken were also a game-changer for me.


Glad to hear you're still finding what we covered useful, Roy! As always, let me know if you have questions.

Dave
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