• FAQ  • Search  • Memberlist  • Usergroups   • Register   • Profile  • Log in to check your private messages  • Log in 

The Committee hype


Goto page Previous  1, 2
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Horns
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
F.E. Olds Nut
Veteran Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2010
Posts: 343
Location: Detroit

PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Random musings:

I lusted after a Martin Committee for years.

In high school I chanced upon a #3 Deluxe model for nearly no money, which I ended up selling to pay for my first Schilke trumpet. I kicked myself for years about selling it, although the Schilke was a much better fit and ended up being my main horn throughout college.

Fast forward to 2021, and I had to the opportunity to purchase a #2 Deluxe model with a piston rebuild. Since graduating, I've sense moved to more commercial and big band work, and not as much small group jazz. I figured it would be a treat for myself and ended up buying it on a whim. Boy, was I in for a rude awakening. In those years since high school I have been spoiled on modern trumpets with modern intonation, and the Martin was almost unplayable for me. While I love the sound, that sound was pretty incompatible for the work I was doing, and I actually hurt myself playing it on a horn section date trying to compensate for the narrow tonal palette and the intonation. I took it to a couple jazz jam sessions hoping it would fit in there, but still wasn't *it* for me. I just traded it to someone who I hope will appreciate it more and I did. And I'm back on my Schilke. Funny how things go...
_________________
Del Quadro "The Mother"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Brad361
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 7080
Location: Houston, TX.

PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A.N.A.Mendez wrote:
For me, I've owned 3 over the years, different times. It's the horn I love to play by myself, to express.... Sit in a corner and noodle around. They bend notes so well, different "color" to the sound. Playing blues as you are in that mood. That is what I love about them.


And there (maybe…sort of….?) is the answer to the question. I think it’s entirely possible that the sound that’s possible (and I believe we sometimes negate how much the player and mouthpiece factors in) to get out of the Committee isn’t as practical, or maybe I should say “all around useful” (?) as many other horns. I’ve never played one. But for me, the sound that I THINK a Committee can produce would not work for what I do, I would either be buried in the sound mix, or kill myself trying to balance with the rest of the band, or both. And I don’t know if a Committee would suit me much better if I was playing more legit styles either. Would it “blend” in a section of Bach and Yamahas? But then, is “blend” as important as some believe? I can’t really remember anyone mentioning that back in prehistoric times, when I was in college. Of course back then, even as a music major, most of us were fortunate to have just ONE Bb, and if someone had said we needed to blend better, we would have tried to find a way to make whatever equipment we were using do that.

None of which are reasons NOT to have one, they’re just MY reasons not to.

Edit: F.E.Olds comments above this post sound like what I THINK my experience might be with a Committee, if I tried one.

Brad
_________________
When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval


Last edited by Brad361 on Fri Sep 24, 2021 11:00 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
A.N.A.Mendez
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 27 Jul 2005
Posts: 5225
Location: ca.

PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OldSchoolEuph wrote:
A.N.A.Mendez wrote:
Slightly off topic but....

I found out later those Olds Silver Supers from that time period were monsters.(1979-81)


Olds was liquidated in 1979, but I am assuming you are talking about either an S-12 Super Ultrasonic (which I didn't realize was ever offered in other than lacquer - so very few were sold), or an Olds SuperStar, which also used an Ultrsonic (explosively molded) bell, had the interchangeable minimally constrictive valves, I think came standard in silver, and was top-of-the-line for Olds - and a killer commercial horn (unfortunately only built in their last few years in business).

The Super Ultrasonic seemingly was not popular (and all I have ever heard previously was how Olds fans did not like them as well as earlier Supers), while the SuperStar just wasn't around long enough to get noticed or I think would have been huge for them.


Yes, I meant 69-71
_________________
"There is no necessity for deadly strife" A. Lincoln 1860

☛ "No matter how cynical you get, it's never enough to keep up" Lily Tomlin☚
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
OldSchoolEuph
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 07 Apr 2012
Posts: 2426

PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A.N.A.Mendez wrote:
Yes, I meant 69-71


ah, yes - that's a difference. Last of the second generation Supers. I have an S-10 like that in raw brass and got a lot of compliments on the tone the one time I used it.
_________________
Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com

2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
chapahi
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 1465
Location: Stuttgart, Germany

PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:42 pm    Post subject: Re: The Committee hype Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:


So I close with this question, again. Why do so many TH-ers play Bachs, Getzens, Yamahas, Schilkes etc. and not Committees if they're so special? Thanks.


Which sounds better to you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEhNH2P1YDI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeKGrSFLBvk

Miles Davis is always brought up in the Committee discussion but as far as I can see, based on photos and album covers, he's always playing a new horn. Does this mean he's playing an RNC era committee?
_________________
Sima, Kanstul 1525 Flugel and Kanstul pocket trumpet. Olds Super
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
HERMOKIWI
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 24 Dec 2008
Posts: 2578

PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 11:13 pm    Post subject: Re: The Committee hype Reply with quote

chapahi wrote:
kehaulani wrote:


So I close with this question, again. Why do so many TH-ers play Bachs, Getzens, Yamahas, Schilkes etc. and not Committees if they're so special? Thanks.


Which sounds better to you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEhNH2P1YDI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeKGrSFLBvk

Miles Davis is always brought up in the Committee discussion but as far as I can see, based on photos and album covers, he's always playing a new horn. Does this mean he's playing an RNC era committee?


They both sound like Steve Dillard.

As for Miles, it's my understanding that he had an arrangement throughout his career playing a Martin Committee for Martin Committee trumpets to be built to his liking. There are many photos of him playing later era Martin Committee trumpets that were a different design from the classic Martin Committee trumpets from the 1940's and 1950's. Certainly we can reasonably assume that these later era Martin Committee trumpets were made specifically for him and were approved by him.
_________________
HERMOKIWI
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Brassnose
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 07 Mar 2016
Posts: 2022
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My teacher, a seasoned jazz and commercial pro, said he of course wanted a Committee but when he finally got to try one he decided to stick with a modern horn because it was so hard to play the MC in tune.
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Klier, Curry
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Croquethed
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 19 Dec 2013
Posts: 609
Location: Oakville, CT

PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 4:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find it interesting that the Committee thread and a couple X-13 threads are proving durable simultaneously.

I would love to stumble across a Committee serendipitously, like our recent poster whose great-grandfather had one. But I hesitate to pay collector prices for one.

I am a comeback hack who just loves to play. 99.9% of my playing is for me alone. I have thus far in my comeback bought solid horns at value prices; an Eterna Classic from Music & Arts with double coupons (I walked out of the store with the horn, mutes, music, etc for $1300 in 2013). A demo Proteus from Brett himself in their Reverb sale. A Super Deluxe copper-belled horn that's seen a lot of use before I got it, but in the right circumstances a tone like warm liquid chocolate. All three cost less combined than a new Strad.

But the idea of a premier luxury horn still appeals to me, perhaps because I have reached a point in my life where the financial resources are there, or soon to be in reach, to get one. There are lots of options, but I would not spend that kind of money on an older horn, even with airtight provenance. Right now, should I pull the trigger for that level horn, I'm pretty sure it'll be an X-13.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Brassnose
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 07 Mar 2016
Posts: 2022
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, I totally agree. I’m not rich at all, but some money is a little flexible, so there are options I have my permanent staff (see signature), which I accumulated over 41 years now and every now and then I buy the odd additional horn just for the heck of it. Played it and so far sold all of them again after a while.

If I’ll go for a new horn to stay, it may well be an X-13. It’s the one that stood out over the last few years when playtesting. There are a few others like the Bach Mariachi and Commercial that may be interesting contenders, but the X was the one horn so far that I really thought was superior to my Bach.

Not sure I’d put down the same amount of money on a vintage horn. The only other temptation would be a high end bass trumpet.
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Klier, Curry
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kehaulani
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Posts: 8965
Location: Hawai`i - Texas

PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@brassnose - was the X-13 Committee-ish but with modern characteristics? Thanks.

I would hazard a guess to the above thread comment that the X-13 gives that connection to the Committee sound and nostalgic connection the the Be-/Hard Bop players of the past?
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Getzen Capri Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Brassnose
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 07 Mar 2016
Posts: 2022
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hard to say because I never played a Committee (my teacher did, I referred to his comments earlier on).

The main reason why for me the X-13 would be the top candidate for a new Bb after 30 years on the Bach is that it really is the one (piston) horn that made it easier to play - on par with my Schmidt rotary.

It’s a lightweight horn, has a very quick response, super valves, is open but not too open, seems to be quite mouthpiece sensitive, has a better intonation than my Bach (so far I found two horns with that property: the X and anything by Martin Schmidt - maybe my Bach ist just a top intonator ).

The sound is broader than my Bach but I only had my JK USA 5C with me at the time. Will need to go back and test more mouthpieces.

Also I like the open wrap, makes it easy to hold.

Overall, I presume it could be Committee-ish but I can’t say for sure. Visually of course the two bear no resemblance other than that there are three valves and a trumpet bell
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Klier, Curry
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Yamahaguy
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 09 Dec 2004
Posts: 3992

PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A.N.A.Mendez wrote:
I found out later those Olds Silver Supers from that time period were monsters.(1969-71) I sold that horn to a power player in Australia some years ago (Maynard type player) He was over the moon...
Coincidently, I just saw one for sale here and wanted to try it. Should be here Wednesday, I'll let you know!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
shofarguy
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 7003
Location: AZ

PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found that the X-13 experience is not a lot like playing a Martin Committee, either medium or large bore.

Talking tone, the Committee is unique and only Kanstul has come close. The Edwards is not trying to sound like a Martin.

In the hand, the two are very different. The Committee has a fairly tight wrap, like a Schilke. The X-13 is almost like a Conn Constellation, but much lighter.

Slotting is perhaps similar when the X-13 is set up without the extra doodads.

Blow is really different. Even the large bore version of the Martin is a medium bore design up until the bottom leg of the tuning slide. It means the horn is not so open as other .468" horns. The Edwards is not quite as open as certain Schilkes I've played that seem like there is really no resistance at all. It has resistance, but the overriding impression that I got was that of great responsiveness. Here, the X-13 is above the rest.
_________________
Brian A. Douglas

Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper


There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kehaulani
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Posts: 8965
Location: Hawai`i - Texas

PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Brian.
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Getzen Capri Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
khedger
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 754
Location: Cambridge, MA

PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:
We're getting off-topic, but speaking of Benges . . when I was at UNT, it seemed that many big band players played Benges. I was impressed, they played and sounded great but I couldn't afford one.

When I got a chance to get a new horn, I settled on a Getzen Severinsen. I called it "The Poor Man's Benge", LOL.

Imagine my surprise a couple of years later, when I sat next to a former Benge player who had played lead in the UNT One O'clock band and went on to other name bands, and he had changed horns . . to a Severinsen.


I love my Benges, but I've always considered the Getzen Eterna Severinsen next in line for quality and feel. They're great horns. I've got two Eterna flutes and I love 'em both.

Keith
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Horns All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group