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Watch out for trends, find a horn you like



 
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Jaw04
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:57 pm    Post subject: Watch out for trends, find a horn you like Reply with quote

There is a lot of hype that pops up for certain trumpets online, and it spreads quickly. I want to stress to the trumpet community that there is no perfect trumpet or mouthpiece. Everything is a trade-off and you need to find what works for you. There isn't really a trumpet that has it all, or can sound like any other trumpet, even if you spend the premium.

It's up to you to find the trumpet you like that works for your sound concept, performance needs, skill level, and budget. Also matching the mouthpiece to the horn is equally as important as the mouthpiece or horn itself. Watch out for hype and jargon. You might end up playing on equipment that isn't doing you any favors but you had a placebo effect from reading things online.

To be completely honest, the trumpet you play doesn't really matter THAT MUCH as long as it isn't broken and is made by a reputable manufacturer. Especially if you are an amateur.
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Brassnose
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

True. I could still use my 1980 Blessing Scholastic for everything. It will do it. But, as Martin Schmidt once said to me: it is just so much more fun to play a really good trumpet

Moreover, I find that a really good trumpet is ESPECIALLY helpful for amateur players, because if you find the one (or two or three) that work(s) for you it supports your playing as much as possible. A pro can make a garden hose work, I can’t.

And then, also especially for amateur players: a hobby is a hobby is a hobby. Does it really matter if you have 5 or 6 trumpets? Much better than spending money on cars, alcohol, you name it. So if I can find a bad looking but fully functional Olds Studio cornet for 50 bucks (yes, I did), why not? I play it, see if I like it, keep it until something more interesting comes along, sell it. Hype or no hype, it’s fun to play something different from time to time.

I did observe, however, that for actual playing in a group I need to spend enough time on a horn to know it’s quirks. So I’d probably not bring a new-to-me horn to a rehearsal or a gig.
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Bethmike
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:03 am    Post subject: Watch out for trends, find a horn you like Reply with quote

Quote:
And then, also especially for amateur players: a hobby is a hobby is a hobby. Does it really matter if you have 5 or 6 trumpets? Much better than spending money on cars, alcohol, you name it.


+1
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zaferis
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The other side of that is from a pro position.. when I sit next to someone (amature, hobbyist, semi-pro, etc) that has a cheap horn or "one just as good as a pro horn"- someone's "new" variant, or as someone called them "trumpet like objects" .. I can tell you that it's not the same, and quite different.. not only are you not doing yourself any favors, you're making it more challenging and less fun for those around you.

I play in a jazz band from time to time that the band leader and his son, both trumpeters, use "good enough" Flugels... well.. they're aweful.. makes it dreadfully hard to have a good section sound - bad tone and terrible tuning.
Then there's a local bone player that has a carbon-fibre bell section - he loves it.. sounds like he's playing on a $100 toy, and no core sound to blend in with.

There are reasons that the big names are still around and still used.
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Brassnose
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup. I only played in one pro band in my life, at the time we all played Bach and Calicchio. Nowadays I only play with amateurs but we only have band members using quality brass, anything from Bach to Selmer to Yamaha and Scherzer, whatever. I can’t be sure for the strings because a good string instrument, especially the double basses, can be really (…) expensive.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is bad advice and should be ignored.

With an astute prowess of searching internet advice and multi-horn Safaris for The Holy Grail, you can find a combination that makes you sound just like your idol. And avoid all those agonizing and boring hours in the woodshed.

@zaferis - LOL.
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yourbrass
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

zaferis wrote:
The other side of that is from a pro position.. when I sit next to someone (amature, hobbyist, semi-pro, etc) that has a cheap horn or "one just as good as a pro horn"- someone's "new" variant, or as someone called them "trumpet like objects" .. I can tell you that it's not the same, and quite different.. not only are you not doing yourself any favors, you're making it more challenging and less fun for those around you.

I play in a jazz band from time to time that the band leader and his son, both trumpeters, use "good enough" Flugels... well.. they're aweful.. makes it dreadfully hard to have a good section sound - bad tone and terrible tuning.
Then there's a local bone player that has a carbon-fibre bell section - he loves it.. sounds like he's playing on a $100 toy, and no core sound to blend in with.

There are reasons that the big names are still around and still used.


+1, especially the part about "good enough" flugels.
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Steve A
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm always amazed at the amount of attention that the cost of trumpets or mouthpieces gets. It's one thing if we're talking about a case where people are scraping together everything they can to buy an instrument for their kids, or something along those lines - I don't mean to presume about people's finances, but I think that in a lot of cases this topic gets weirdly over-emphasized.

The idea of a "good enough instrument" (or mouthpiece) which is not as good as a pro instrument, but only costs 70% as much seems like a really strange compromise to me. Honestly, considered against the cost of lessons, or a lifetime's accumulation of trumpet practice gadgets or gimmicky mouthpieces, or meals or drinks out with friends, trumpets and mouthpieces are cheap. Granted it's not everyone's cup of tea, but a perfectly serviceable used Bach 37 and a 3C, or an older Xeno and matched Yamaha mouthpiece cost pretty close to an awful lot of the instruments I see here with "can you believe how much cheaper this is than an X?" posts, and wouldn't be compromising on playing quality. If spending an extra $250 gives me something that I'll get good use out of for a lifetime, vs. something that will always fall a bit short, and raise uncomfortable questions, personally, I think that's a no-brainer.
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deleted_user_687c31b
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brassnose wrote:
A pro can make a garden hose work, I can’t.

Pretty much this. Although, pros can make anything work and yet they still have their preferences too.

When talking about gear I usually err on the side of caution to avoid causing anyone to spend their hard-earned money on the wrong thing, but if I’m totally honest…

…from my own experience, gear matters. A LOT. The trumpet I currently play revived my joy of playing after teetering on the brink of quitting, and the mouthpieces I play now catapulted my ability and sound from poor to above-adequate. The only caveat is that you need sufficient skill to determine what gear improves your playing, just buying a random expensive toy isn’t gonna do that (and that includes buying a trumpet for the hype).

Brassnose wrote:
But, as Martin Schmidt once said to me: it is just so much more fun to play a really good trumpet


So true.
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Brassnose
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gear matters. Absolutely. For reasons stated in another thread I cannot (and don’t want to) have too much gear; the signature is the complete list (plus sometimes a stray horn or two ) and each horn has a purpose (some loosely defined) where it works better than my other gear.
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Brassnose
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Steve A: I agree that a few hundred bucks should not matter over a lifetime. Personally I’d still invest 4 grand in a new trumpet rather than a vintage horn.

But of course if the choice is between a used pro horn and a TSO, this should be a no-brainer.
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LaTrompeta
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think trends in product purchasing do have a place. There is a reason why so many people like Steinway pianos, or Yamaha trumpets.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You definitely need Ferrari-class equipment for Formula 1 racing. A used Honda
Accord gets you to the grocery store just fine.
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deleted_user_687c31b
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LaTrompeta wrote:
I think trends in product purchasing do have a place. There is a reason why so many people like Steinway pianos, or Yamaha trumpets.

True to a point. It depends on your definition of 'hype' I suppose. For me, hype is when people buy something for far more than it's worth just to have it, regardless of what they actually end up with (basically: over-inflation). General popularity of an item is certainly a good guide to finding decent instruments, but when a trumpet becomes 'mythical' or 'legendary', be prepared to overpay if you really want one.
kehaulani wrote:
You definitely need Ferrari-class equipment for Formula 1 racing. A used Honda Accord gets you to the grocery store just fine.

That's a bit skewed. A Ferrari is over-engineered for the task (less practical than the Honda even), but with trumpets there's no downside to a 'great' trumpet over a 'good' one, other than maybe the price. And hype doesn't neccesarily equal high price (Olds Ambassador for example), though it may be that you're paying extra just for the 'hyped value'.

A more fitting example in my opinion, would be a red/orange Honda Accord with racing stripes vs. a plain beige one. The first being flashy and more expensive, but both will perform equally well at getting you to said grocery store.
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mikepodorski
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The trumpet and mouthpiece market seems much different than most other instruments, including other brass instruments. It's almost like golf. There's always some new driver or golf ball that will add 30 yards to your drive. There's always some mouthpiece or system that will help you hit that double high C.

Accurate intonation and valves that work well are really the essential qualities of a trumpet. Tone and ease of blow can vary quite a bit, but that won't effect a players ability to play something beautiful and musical, especially after getting to know the horn. If you have a mouthpiece that fits your mouth structure and a horn that is in tune with good valves, you have the tools you need to make beautiful music. If you can't make beautiful music, no high dollar trumpet or mouthpiece will help.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hibidogrulez wrote:
kehaulani wrote:
You definitely need Ferrari-class equipment for Formula 1 racing. A used Honda Accord gets you to the grocery store just fine.
. . there's no downside to a 'great' trumpet over a 'good' one, other than maybe the price.

Could you also say, for the needs of the average hobbyist or semi-pro who seemingly populate the internet forums, the opposite, as well? And regarding price, for some of the players, price is more than just an "other than"?
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shofarguy
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To the OP and others.

I have favorites. I use certain knives in my kitchen that just give me better results. Same with hand and power tools in my garage work shop. For instance, I have been building a timber frame pergola in my shop and recently used two routers to make cuts and details on the four posts. They both work, but the little 1/4" Porter Cable Heritage model my father gave me is magic in my hands. The Bosch, not so much. I once had a cat's paw (nail puller) that allowed me to draw out nails from wood leaving almost no mark. I accidentally left it in the rafters of my Dad's cabin when I reworked the roof. I've never found another even remotely as good. Other carpenters just don't care to that level and that's okay. But, it's also okay that I do care to that level.

Trumpets are not unlike that.
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OldHorn
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know I'm a fossil compared to a lot of the members here, but I made my living as a musician and for the majority of those years I had one horn, a Bach 43. That's all I needed.
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zaferis
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:
hibidogrulez wrote:
kehaulani wrote:
You definitely need Ferrari-class equipment for Formula 1 racing. A used Honda Accord gets you to the grocery store just fine.
. . there's no downside to a 'great' trumpet over a 'good' one, other than maybe the price.

Could you also say, for the needs of the average hobbyist or semi-pro who seemingly populate the internet forums, the opposite, as well? And regarding price, for some of the players, price is more than just an "other than"?


Remember that music is a team sport, if you show up with a Civic (or worse) for the Formula 1 team race, it's not just you that you've compromised - good enough to get groceries brings the rest of the team down. Unlike racing it also makes it more difficult to drive the better car as you're always adjusting to the lesser qualities of the Civic (sorry Honda - I loved my Civic).
It may sound elitist, but someone in a section showing up with the craptastic "good enough" trumpet/mutes makes the rest of the section, ensemble work harder and ultimately makes a lesser product.

In comparison to almost any other instrument family we're talking peanuts as far as cost.. guitar/amp/pedals/strings, woodwinds x reeds & upkeep..
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