Help me decide on a Hn White super 20 silver sonic symphony.

[chef8489]

I had planned on purchasing a vintage Silver Flair but something happened and it got lost in the post. I am deeply saddened by that as I was really looking forward to that horn. Was a great deal but it is what it is. Now I am looking on Hn Whites website at a few super 20 silver sonic symphonies as Rich Willey and I were talking about them the other day in my lesson. I had one in the past when I was back in Texas and I loved it. I am torn between one with the finger ring and one with the trigger. I have had both triggers in the past and my Bach has a saddle. I am not sure what I prefer at this point and could use some guidance which route to take.
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Current horns
2023 Bach 19072G/43 pipe with 1st trigger
1966 H.N. White King Silver Flair
1965 H.N. White King Super 20 Sllversonic Symphony 1st trigger

[OldSchoolEuph]

First bear in mind that the Silver Flair and the Symphony Silversonic are VERY different horns.

When considering a trigger vs a saddle, there are 2 things to weigh, and which is more important varies with the individual. First, which is more comfortable and less disruptive of the embouchure, hold, etc.? Second, does the placement of mass at the end of the slide (trigger) dampen interference patterns in a way that comes closer to the tone you want? (google "trumpet harmonic balancer" if you don't know what this is about)



As a sidebar, HN White had prototyped a Symphony bore Flair, but the company was sold before it progressed into production and Nate Dolin was not looking to invest in R&D.
_________________
Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com

2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20

[kehaulani]

FWIW, I had a first-valve trigger put on my Getzen Classic Eterna and it has made no difference to me in ergonomic efficiency or tone.
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn

[chef8489]

[Richard III]

I love triggers. I've always thought that gripping tighter and then less more intuitive than extending the hand while trying to hang on to the thing. That always just seemed stupid. And then there's the trigger on the tuning slide of my York cornet. Heaven.
_________________
Richard

King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece

[Brassnose]

Trigger. I’m on my way to getting triggers mounted on all my horns (well, not the pTrumpet). For the same reasons as mentioned by Richard III.

I played a Hüttl Silver Colibri 69 for a bit and the 3rd valve trigger is just so much more logical than throwing out the slide with the ring. Same goes for the 1st valve.
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier

[Dale Proctor]

I like a 3rd valve ring and a 1st valve trigger. That setup seems to make better ergonomic sense. Make sure the return spring on the trigger isn’t very strong to eliminate any tension at that point.
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"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham

[chef8489]

[Dale Proctor]

Looks like a beauty!
_________________
"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham

[Brassnose]

Yeah, those are beautiful horns. I like the 1930s cornets with the more elaborate Art Deco style engravings even better (based on visuals, never played one).
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier

[deleted_user_687c31b]

Ohw, nice eye candy! If it plays half as well as it looks, you're in for a treat!

Anyway, I can't offer you much advice except one personal thing: I have a trumpet with a 3rd slide trigger and a cornet with a 1st slide 'saddle'. Often I subconsciously hold onto the cornet in the same way as my trumpet, only to find that I'm unable to use its slide because my finger isn't in it. So for me, it'd be helpful if the triggers are the same across instruments.

Mechanically, the trigger pulls from the center between the tubes, whereas a slide pulls on one of the legs. That means there's torsion as well, which may (but often doesn't) add additional friction when moving the slide. I've had minor issues with slides getting stuck because of that, but if they're well greased/lubricated, it's probably not an issue.

[OldSchoolEuph]

As a display piece, it is quite something. All of the horns Chris Charvat sells are show-pieces (typically involving a great deal of work to bring something in shaky condition back to better than new appearance). This has both positives and negatives.

The positive in terms of how it looks and impresses is obvious. Similarly, the fit and alignment will always be spot-on after essentially remanufacturing the horn.

The negatives are that this horn has been so heavily buffed to get to a smooth finish after what was probably extensive work, that a lot of metal has been removed. This is evidenced by the re-engraving of not only the bell, but every mark on the horn. The other negative is that $2200 is a lot of money for a horn that typically sells, admittedly not looking like that, for half that or less.

In the question-mark category are two items: how tight are the valves on a horn that apparently saw enough use to need major work, and how touchy and potentially edgy will the bell response be with the loss of mass through heavy buffing. The weasel words regarding the valves (slide pop and "no apparent loss") are a bit disconcerting. Only play testing can answer these questions.

Chris Charvat has been doing this for a long time, and I have heard few complaints. It still makes me a little uneasy that the name of the HN White Company technically belongs to Conn-Selmer and is usurped here to try and make this look like the website of the original maker, but despite this and some shady wording, Charvat seems to have mostly satisfied customers over a long time period.
_________________
Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com

2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20

[chef8489]

[OldSchoolEuph]

[chef8489]

Well I put a deposit down on this horn. We worked out a deal and I am paying a bit less that what is marked. I'm still on a tight budget so it will be a month or 2 till I get it, but I think I'll be really happy with this horn since the Silver Flair got lost in the mail. I did love the Super 20 silver sonic symphony I had back in Texas when I started my first comeback in 2012 or so.

_________________
Current horns
2023 Bach 19072G/43 pipe with 1st trigger
1966 H.N. White King Silver Flair
1965 H.N. White King Super 20 Sllversonic Symphony 1st trigger

[LittleRusty]

I am curious about one point in the ad.

It says “both the Sterling silver bell or leadpipe have been lacquered.”

I am wondering if it was meant to read “neither the Sterling…” or if they are indeed lacquered.

I just am not used to seeing lacquer on silver.

[chef8489]

[Brad361]

[/quote]
……They used to put liquor over solid sterling parts to preserve them so you didn't have to continually have to polish them. ……[/quote]

I used to put liquor INSIDE my horns, but long ago decided that it wasn’t preserving nor helping anything…..just the contrary, really. 😉

Brad
_________________
When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval

[chef8489]