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Shawnino Veteran Member
Joined: 27 Jun 2020 Posts: 255
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HaveTrumpetWillTravel Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Jan 2018 Posts: 1021 Location: East Asia
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Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 7:19 am Post subject: |
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Someone there compared it to Trent Hamilton's video of a "solo horn"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2eTiTMIDSo&ab_channel=TrentHamilton
There were also some nice comparison to mellophones (which are in F) and valve trombones/flugabones, which are in Bb.
I have some of the marching instruments and find they're a ton of fun to play but hard to adapt to gigs, and also honestly invite (probably deserved) ridicule from symphonic players.
I do think Taylor's creation looks very cool. Looks like it would be a lot of fun to play also. |
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Brassnose Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2016 Posts: 2052 Location: Germany
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Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 9:58 am Post subject: |
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I like it! On German eBay Eb and F Alto trumpets come up quite regularly. Most are old rotaries in often questionable shape but the DO look like fun. I have never played one and only use I could see is fun playing at home, so I certainly won’t buy one. _________________ 2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier |
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Didymus Veteran Member
Joined: 19 Dec 2017 Posts: 306 Location: Minneapolis, MN
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Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 12:21 pm Post subject: Soprano Helicon in Eb |
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There is also Melton's soprano helicon in Eb, which uses a flügelhorn mouthpiece:
_________________ Enjoy the journey. |
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dershem Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Jun 2007 Posts: 1887 Location: San Diego, CA
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Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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I've seen that post, and even commented on it. I have a Peck-Horn and a couple of french horns, and am always interested in what possible sounds there are out there (and I've seen Reichenbach's Altos, which are very interesting), but ... it's a lot of money for a "wouldn't that be fun?" _________________ BKA! Mic Gillette was my mentor and friend.
Marcinkiewicz Mic G. trumpet, Custom Marcinkiewicz mpc. (Among others)
Marcinkiewicz Rembrandt flugel, Benge 8Z cornet, King 2B, Bach 36, Benge 190, Getzen 3062... many more. All Marc. mouthpieces. |
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huntman10 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Aug 2017 Posts: 687 Location: Texas South Plains
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Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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Vincent Bach catalogued Flugelhorns in Eb Soprano and Eb alto (contalto) until about 1965. I never saw the Alto, and May have seen a soprano in Eb on eBay years ago. The Bach Mt. Vernon Eb cornet and Flugelhorns were trumpet wrapped, so they looked alike. I have the old catalogue.
About 10 years ago, our church wanted a really sad sounding horn for a performance of "Via Dolorosa" (Way of Sorrow) and I thought of the Alto flugelhorn as fitting the bill. I found a used recent Bach mellophone (they are in F, not Eb) locally, and began experimenting with mouthpieces to get an alto flugelhorn sound.
Modern mellophones have receivers that take a trumpet shank. If you order a Bach "mellophone mouthpiece", it will have a small cornet shank which would fit the old mellophones made until the 1970's or so. Most mellophone players in regular marching bands use trumpet mouthpieces or French horn mouthpieces with adapters.
I got a tenor horn mouthpiece (or Blessing mellophone piece) and got the sound i wanted.
I had to add a ring to the third slide and smooth up the 1st and 3rd slides and learn to play in tune (most marching directors seem to think that was an impossible task) and have made it a regular feature of the Maundy Thursday service. _________________ huntman10
Collector/Player of Fine (and not so fine) Brass Instruments including
Various Strads, Yammies, Al Hirt Courtois, Schilkes,
Selmer 25, Getzen Eternas, Kanstuls (920 Pic, CG)
Martin Custom Large Bore, Lots Olds!, Conns, etc. |
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HaveTrumpetWillTravel Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Jan 2018 Posts: 1021 Location: East Asia
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Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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I recently bought a jupiter mellophone. The french horn adapter was stuck in place, so I had it pulled and bought a mellophone mouthpiece used (Hammond 6mp). It's a good set-up. Using a real mellophone mouthpiece seems like the way to go. I may try it at church sometime, but would need to work on transposing F to C.
To me, Taylor's flugelhorn looks like it takes a trombone/euphonium mouthpiece. Is that right? I'd like to hear someone compare it to a flugabone blind--I am guessing they're fairly similar. |
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MagyarQ New Member
Joined: 26 May 2021 Posts: 7
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Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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I would love to play alto flugel on Don Elliott Mellophone solo transcriptions. If you haven't heard of him, do look him up. _________________ MAGYARQ |
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gsmonks New Member
Joined: 02 Oct 2021 Posts: 10
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Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 9:21 pm Post subject: Re: Thoughts, positibe or negative, on Alto Fluegel? |
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It depends whether you're talking about an alto Saxhorn (aka peck horn, alto horn, tenor horn, Eb horn, etc) or a real Eb or F alto flugelhorn.
Where the Saxhorn is concerned, the bell-forward version (aka solo alto, marching alto, marching tenor) is usually the poor cousin of the upright (aka tubaform) version. I've had a few solo altos (antiques) over the years that weren't bad players, but weren't in the same ballpark as the Courtois, Willson, Besson Sovereign, or Yamaha Maestro.
Where real flugelhorns are concerned, all my low Eb/F flugelhorns are antiques ranging in quality from instrument-shaped object to excellent. Putting a name to them is a crap-shoot because a good many of the 19th-century instruments I've collected over the years are nameless, so recommending a particular brand isn't possible in many cases. My ca 1899 Rudolph is a good player.
Real flugelhorns (originally referred to as "valved bugles") began ca 1830 when Leopold Uhlmann of Vienna patented a C instrument with Vienna Valves. They came in all shapes, sizes, and keys, from Eb soprano to Bb to Eb alto/tenor to Bb tenor/bass to Bb bass/contrabass. They also have rotary valves.
Saxhorns (patented in 1844) came in piccolo form (can't recall the keys) to Eb soprano, to Bb alto (these two were originally called Infantry Saxhorns but today are miscalled "flugelhorns", especially by Jazz players), Eb alto/tenor horn, and small- and large-bore Bb baritone. In the early days there were also bass Saxhorns, but the tuba family mopped the floor with them in short order.
I highly recommend the low F and Eb antique flugelhorns for playing jazz, if you can ever find one in playing condition. The Eb soprano, too. The antique low Eb/F contralto rotary-valve trumpet, too. The more-or-less modern Bach 187f and the Getzen are good players, too. |
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THE BD Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Apr 2005 Posts: 897 Location: Columbus, Oh-hi-uh
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Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2021 3:10 am Post subject: |
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Definitely a cool horn and would be fun to take and play on a chart, but it mostly feels like we're trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist with this one... _________________ Martin D Williams
Yeah, I did that! |
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gsmonks New Member
Joined: 02 Oct 2021 Posts: 10
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Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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THE BD wrote: | Definitely a cool horn and would be fun to take and play on a chart, but it mostly feels like we're trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist with this one... |
True. Jazz guys are always looking for something cool to pull out of the hat, and this is definitely one of those rabbits. Maybe we're chasing it down the rabbit hole?
Here, bunny, bunny, bunny . . .
Have you seen the Normaphones? They're a sax-shaped family of trumpets, named for the designer's wife.
I'm ordering a quinticlave in a few months (my retirement present to myself). It's an alto ophicleide, aka keyed serpent. Same key and range as we're talking here. I want to see how it holds up in a jazz setting. In the right hands ophicleides are far more expressive than their valved counterparts. |
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Richard III Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2007 Posts: 2654 Location: Anacortes, WA
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Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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I've played a turn of the century mellophone in jazz. Think Don Elliot. Plays in F with trumpet fingerings. Bit of a muffled sound, so the mellow in the mellophone is true. I've also played marching french horns and marching baritones in jazz. All worked very well. I'm not talking big band playing, but small combo stuff.
I also just bought a flugabone. Should arrive tomorrow. So that will make the set complete as it is a marching trombone. Love the sound of these horns.
But the question is Eb flugel. Not a clue where you would play it. I do all the arranging for my bands so I can make the part in any key I want, but you still have to think in that key. Eb kind of bends my mind a bit. _________________ Richard
King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece |
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deleted_user_687c31b New Member
Joined: 03 Apr 1996 Posts: 0
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Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2021 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe it could be used doubling or replacing an Alto saxophone part?
If I'm not mistaken, with saxophones the relative pitches where chosen in a way that allowed them to blend nicely together (in for example a traditional saxophone quartet). It would be fun to try something similar with brass instruments. |
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THE BD Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Apr 2005 Posts: 897 Location: Columbus, Oh-hi-uh
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Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 3:18 am Post subject: |
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hibidogrulez wrote: | Maybe it could be used doubling or replacing an Alto saxophone part?
If I'm not mistaken, with saxophones the relative pitches where chosen in a way that allowed them to blend nicely together (in for example a traditional saxophone quartet). It would be fun to try something similar with brass instruments. |
Could be possible with the right chart, but not just anywhere. I used to play bari sax in a big band regularly, and one of the Christmas charts we did had a clarinet feature in the bari part. While I can play it just fine on the clarinet, it was always a show stopper and sounded really cool when I played it on flugel. Everyone loved it that way! _________________ Martin D Williams
Yeah, I did that! |
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